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Topic: Center tear
Message: Posted by: reese (Jun 19, 2004 11:43AM)
Does anyone know where the c.t. first appears in print? I know Martin Sunshine claimed to have invented it...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 19, 2004 04:33PM)
In March of 1935, in the Jinx, Annemann published an item called "Two New Publicity Effects," which were variations on the CT. One of theses was later republished in Crimmins' book [i]Annemann's Practical Mental Effects.[/i] Whether this is the earliest remains to be seen, but it is certainly one of them.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jun 20, 2004 11:47PM)
I learned it in the early 60's from Mercer Helms. It was the perfect size paper to lead into a dove act. At that time, I was given to understand that it was not commercially available. But I did see it fifteen years later at Abbott's with Foster's name on it.

It was my first experience using a dressmaker's marking wheel in magic. Was that part of the original?

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Paul (Jun 21, 2004 12:28PM)
[quote]
On 2004-06-21 00:47, Bob Sanders wrote:
I learned it in the early 60's from Mercer Helms. It was the perfect size paper to lead into a dove act. At that time, I was given to understand that it was not commercially available. But I did see it fifteen years later at Abbott's with Foster's name on it.

It was my first experience using a dressmaker's marking wheel in magic. Was that part of the original?

Bob
Magic By Sander
[/quote]

??? I think, Bob, you are mistaking this classic mentalists way of gaining information for something completely different. :)

Paul.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jun 24, 2004 10:21PM)
Bob is thinking of the trick where the center section of a piece of newspaper is cut out and restored quickly. I'm thinking of the mentalist's technique.

What is reese thinking of?
Message: Posted by: reese (Jun 24, 2004 11:53PM)
I'm thinking of the mentalism technique...You must be right Bill, the first appearance of the center tear's gotta be in the Jinx in 1935.( Unless someone knows of something earlier?) And Bob, your post gave me a pleasant surreal moment. I read your post thinking of mentalism...then I realized it was a torn & restored newspaper. :) A "Twight Zone" moment... But of course, there are other effects with the name "center tear". I wasn't completely clear in the initial post...
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jun 29, 2004 02:01PM)
Gentlemen,

I stand corrected. I was indeed thinking of the tabloid tear. (You know mental resources here are limited! My co-workers are bird brains.)

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: jacky kahan (Sep 25, 2004 10:44AM)
Check out http://www.magicbooks.be
just make a search on center tear
all the best

jacky
http://www.magicbooks.be
Message: Posted by: JoshEarp (Jan 9, 2005 07:11PM)
Where can I see a video of the CT?
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Jan 20, 2005 09:03PM)
As a youngster (which could not have been long ago) I called the mental center tear technique the "Dead man test". What about Bill? Did you?

(It bought me a lot of beer in the Navy.)

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: heidelberk (Jan 25, 2005 08:13AM)
HI guys I'm new here, is the perfected center tear by osterlind is totally different from those old ct method or it is almost the same thing? I read about it including "ashes on the arm" using perfected center tear in a walk around situation, is that the same thing which blaine did in his fearless video. lol! thanks
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 26, 2005 04:30PM)
I went to the Belgian forum, did a search on "center tear" and came up with nothing.

Osterlind's center tear is a much-improved version of the classic method. This is an open forum, so we don't tip details of methods here.
Message: Posted by: andre combrinck (Jun 12, 2005 05:42AM)
It also looks to me like Annemann invented this-From his book PME,his name appears above the effect,which says that it is his.
Andre
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 3, 2005 12:14PM)
Annemann did not write [i]Practical Mental Effects.[/i] This is one of the most often misattributed books in mentalism.

The name of the book is [i]Annemann's Practical Mental Effects[/i]. The author/editor was John J. Crimmins, Jr.

While Annemann wrote most of the material in the book, it was Crimmins who was responsible for the selection of the material and for making it into a really solid piece of work. He is so seldom credited for his contributions to mentalism, that I think it's time this is corrected.
Message: Posted by: Bob Sanders (Aug 12, 2005 08:11AM)
Bill,

You did it again! I really enjoy reading your posts for the tid bits that you add that forever escape us in the other media.

Thank you for the research.

Bob
Magic By Sander
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 8, 2006 12:31AM)
No biggie. I just have a bunch of shelves full of books here. Sometimes I actually look at the covers and title pages! ;)
Message: Posted by: Doctor REvil (Oct 24, 2006 02:01PM)
August 1932, Annemann contributed his "Ne Plus Ultra" to Thayer's Trick of the month club, I think before that it was passed around to a select few privatly.
Message: Posted by: DStachowiak (Jan 14, 2007 02:30PM)
[quote]
On 2005-07-03 13:14, Bill Palmer wrote:
Annemann did not write [i]Practical Mental Effects.[/i] This is one of the most often misattributed books in mentalism.

The name of the book is [i]Annemann's Practical Mental Effects[/i]. The author/editor was John J. Crimmins, Jr.

While Annemann wrote most of the material in the book, it was Crimmins who was responsible for the selection of the material and for making it into a really solid piece of work. He is so seldom credited for his contributions to mentalism, that I think it's time this is corrected.
[/quote]
Bill, I think there were a couple of books that came out with Annemann's name on them after his death, which consisted mostly of material mined from the pages of "The Jinx".
I always thought the authors/editors of these books did a great service to the magic community by researching and organizing this terrific resource, and in some cases re-writing the material..
I'm thinking specifically of a book of card effects, but I can't remember the precise title. Was this also Crimmins' work?
Oh and a great deal of credit also has to go to J. G Thompson Jr. for indexing the original material in "Jinx"
Message: Posted by: andre combrinck (Jan 27, 2007 09:18AM)
I just want to ask Bill: When you read the word 'I' in PME, to whom does that refer( Annemann or Crimmins)???
AJ
Message: Posted by: Lawrence O (Oct 2, 2008 05:21AM)
Al Mann also did a lot of creative, but largely ignored, work on and around the CT, for example (but not restricted to) his Umbrella move.

Does any one has a good sound justification for asking the spectator to write something (which is heavily time consuming even in a mentalist effect) and then to immediately tear it down. It seems odd to me.
The rest is easy to justify but I'm having a hard time to feel this part as being logic. Even if it seems to get by with audiences, it remains as a logical discrepency. I'd love to get original patter lines on this section or any form of justification.
Message: Posted by: The Futurist (Oct 30, 2009 12:12PM)
[quote]
On 2008-10-02 06:21, Lawrence O wrote:
Does any one has a good sound justification for asking the spectator to write something (which is heavily time consuming even in a mentalist effect) and then to immediately tear it down. It seems odd to me.
[/quote]

er... bump?

Hi Lawrence. I really would like to hear some justification for this move too.

All I can think of at the moment is...

- they write it down so as they can hand it round to a couple of other people but not you, so as the others can have a look at the info.

- Take the billet at fingertips from the last spectator, because you're not doing any switch or peek at that point, so you want to milk that truth for what it's worth; perhaps explicitly draw attention to the fact that it's at your fingertips!

- Go to the person who originally wrote the information as if you're going to hand it back to them, and then possibly, at the last second, say, in a casual offhand manner, as if you just thought of it "oh, let's just get rid of this altogether, eh!" and tear...

I have just now been practising the centre tear and depositing the centre into a TT, so I too would be very interested in presentation ideas and justifications for this move.

Also I like the idea of a static electricity generator as delineated here: http://www.phrets.com/electrifried/

- scroll to the bottom of that page for applications, one is:

[i]You can move or influence any number of light objects, such as tissue paper, plant foilage/leaves, tobacco, peanut shells, etc..[/i]

The idea that you can make the torn pieces dance around on the table or even in the spectator's hand with this device seems to me to be a nice spooky twist. And perhaps that visual effect in itself would retroactively justify the ripping up of the billet.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 30, 2009 01:45PM)
[quote]
On 2007-01-27 10:18, andre combrinck wrote:
I just want to ask Bill: When you read the word 'I' in PME, to whom does that refer( Annemann or Crimmins)???
AJ
[/quote]

Usually, it would refer to Annemann, because he wrote the material that formed the contents of the book. However, it was Crimmins who decided what needed to go into the book. OTOH, it could also refer to whoever wrote the article that it was taken from in the Jinx.

BTW, Annemann did not invent the center tear. It is usually credited to Martin Sunshine.

For the person who requested a video of the center tear -- there are lots of them.

To the Futurist -- There are any number of reasons to have someone write down their thoughts on a piece of paper.

1) To make them more concrete.
2) To keep them focused on a single thought

There is also a very cleverly designed center tear billet that appears in Punx's [i]Fourth Dimensional Mysteries[/i], which justifies the writing and which automatically forces everything to be in the "hot" area.

Why do you need to dispose of the CT piece in a TT? There are many ways to get rid of the evidence. See if you can find Karrell Fox's center tear.

BTW, the center tear is NOT a routine. It is a tool. Mentalists who think the center tear is a routine are basically the equivalent of a carpenter who thinks that a saw is what he is building.

If you bring the focus to the piece of paper, and not to the thought or the spectator, you are bringing more heat upon yourself than you need to.

The evidence should be disposed of LONG before you begin your revelation. You can do this when you put your pen or pencil into your pocket or when you put your paper away.
Message: Posted by: The Futurist (Oct 31, 2009 03:48AM)
[quote]
On 2009-10-30 14:45, Bill Palmer wrote:

Why do you need to dispose of the CT piece in a TT? There are many ways to get rid of the evidence. See if you can find Karrell Fox's center tear.
[/quote]

Thanks for your input Bill, and the sources you mention, I shall check them out. Well, I was just playing with the TT in general, as I have been doing obssessively for the past few days. There are worse habits to have I guess :) I thought maybe I could do a convincing, albeit subtle, 'my hands are empty' flourish with the TT in play. Do you not think the risk/reward ratio, or extra "heat", justifies this? I also have just practised palming the piece after the tear.

It occurred to me that a business card or such could have some innocuous features that are ideal for such a task, I'll try and check out [i]Fourth Dimensional Mysteries[/i] soon. At the minute I'll have to check out some actual videos of performances featuring this move, with regards to how it fits into the act.

Happy Halloween everyone! If you are performing tonight hope all goes well, be you scaring or just generally amazing your audience, or even if you're just chilling out at home, have a good one :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 31, 2009 10:29PM)
There should be absolutely no heat on you during the use of the center tear. The action of doing "a subtle 'my hands are empty' flourish" is tantamount to doing a paddle move with a billet knife.

Stop thinking like a magician. Think like a mindreader.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 24, 2010 08:05PM)
If you read [i]Thirteen Steps to Mentalism,[/i] you will see that Corinda has a couple of really interesting ideas for why a spectator might want to write something down.

Here is an idea loosely based upon Corinda's way of thinking.

You start out by asking the spectator to think of anything -- a strong desire, a location he would like to visit, etc. As you apparently try to read his mind, you say, "I'm having trouble getting this. I don't know how many times you have tried to actually concentrate all of your mental powers on a single thought. Maybe someone else nearby is interfering with this. Why don't you write down your desire or thought right here (draw circle) and then fold the paper like this? (demonstrate)"

You continue: "The paper represents a road that connects our minds -- almost like a connection between two telephones. Let's convert it into a wireless connection."

Tear the paper up, do the necessary, and drop the pieces in an ashtray or place them into your pocket. From there, use YFM to get the info.

Now, here's the important part. Do not just say. "I see an E. I see an F." and spell out the word. That's rubbish. Instead, give them a short set of pictures that sums up what they have written.

For example, if they have written down a name, do a quick story about someone with that name.

A long time ago, before I went into the business, I did this to a fellow who is a Gypsy. I asked for a color, a number and a name. When I got to the name, which was Nick, I remembered that he had introduced me to a friend of his a few weeks before. The fellow's name was Nick Marino, another Gypsy.

So the revelation went like this. "You are in in Cincinatti, Ohio. You are just getting ready to step off the curb to cross the street heading over toward the graveyard where the old King of the Gypsies is buried. As you step into the street, you feel a hand on your shoulder. The hand pulls you back, just as a city bus almost runs you down. You feel great relief. You turn, and you see a short, stocky man, balding, black hair, olive complexion. You smile, he smiles, and you say, 'Nick Marino! My gosh! I haven't seen you since the funeral!' "

He nearly lost it right there on the spot. Then he said, "I think you may have something in common with some of the boys."
Message: Posted by: SonnySam (Feb 18, 2010 07:22PM)
Hi Bill
I don't know if you remember me but I knew from during my earlier years. I was one half of the team Siroco and Shanda and was vey fortunate to have known Bert Pratt and Lloyd Jones very well.I recieved much information and many valuable manuscripts from Bert. The one I tresured most was the works of Dr. Jax and that is where I first collided with the CT which I still teach to my students today.
Of course I am not sure where it first came to be but it was probably used prior to ever beiing published.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 19, 2010 03:27AM)
I think you may have me confused with someone else. I don't recall seeing Siroco and Shanda. If you could tell me where we may have met, maybe that would help me. The name sounds like one I wouldn't forget, though.

I never knew Bert Pratt or Lloyd Jones. I read a lot of Lloyd's columns in Genii. Nor did I meet Stanley Jaks, although I have seen the "book" that he worked from, which is in Ken Klosterman's collection.

I'm reasonably certain you are right about the center tear being used prior to ever being published. It's too good an idea to have simply shown up unused in Annemann's writings.
Message: Posted by: David Alexander (Apr 3, 2010 06:51PM)
Here's something I posted on the Genii Forum in December of 2008.

Al Mann did the research and put it in a book he called "The Purloined Thought." It is one of the rarer of Al's books and was, or at least my copy is, hardbacked. The last one I saw went for over $300.

The Center Tear did not come from Annemann or Ovette or Martin Sunshine. Al's research seems solid.

Sid Lorraine got it in England, July, 1928, from an American student named J. T. Garrus. Garrus claimed he'd learned it from Dr. Leland Wyman of Boston, a magician and psychic investigator who learned of it from mediums. Al believed that a small group of magicians who investigated mediums knew the technique as well, notably Joseph Rinn and Joe Dunninger. In The Jinx 74, Jan 6, 1940, Dunninger claimed to have known of the CT as early as 1915.

In 1928 Sid reported on the English magic scene England in The Sphinx but did not detail what he'd learned from Garrus. He wrote three letters to close friends describing the technique: Tom Bowyer, Josepth Ovette and Ted Annemann.

Ovette advertised "What Is It?" in the September, October, and December issues of The Sphinx of 1931 (according to Al) and that was the extent of the advertising. The copy of the ms. that Al obtained was signed by Ovette and numbered 32A, dated October 20th, 1931, suggesting that by October of that year he'd only sold 32 units. The Center Tear was used in that ms. in the performance of a Living and Dead test.

In August, 1932 "Ne Plus Ultra" mindreading became Series No 2, Release No 2 of Thayer's Trick of the Month Club. It was the Center Tear described by Annemann. Thayer also included it as "Smoke Rays" catalog item 1321 for $1.

Annemann put it in The Jinx No 6, March, 1935 and by that point the cat was out of the bag.

Probably the first person to fully realize the potential of the Center Tear was Mogul - Prince of Mystery out of Baltimore. According to Al's book, in 1935 and 1936 Mogul's act was Q&A with the Center Tear and he did good business as the technique fooled a lot of people.

Al reported that when Mogul played Toronto in early 1937 Tom Bowyer discovered to his shocked amazement that Mogul was using a simple technique that Bowyer had known since 1928.

Many years later Al obtained copies of Sid's original notes that he made in England detailing the Center Tear and reproduced them in "The Purloined Thought."

Al also reported that the first public exposure of the CT was in Town and Country magazine in 1939 by someone he describes as "card trickster Jerry Kahler." Apparently Annemann cursed him in The Jinx No 66.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 4, 2010 03:30AM)
That is very interesting. Thanks!
Message: Posted by: charliewerner (Nov 2, 2011 02:17AM)
Reason of tearing?
1) Paper just make it easier so spectator to recall what he just write then what he just think. Hence, you tear it up as you plan to read his mind no the writing.

2) Some magician have good ear, so please write down what you think and show to them and please don't say it out. Take back the paper, and say some magician have good eye sight, I tear this up because I really honestly want to test my mind reading skill.

3) What? You write the spelling of the item? I cant read spelling, it too complicated, (tear the paper up )and ask spectator draw what he just written.

4) At first I ask you write it down, because I don't trust you. Now you see me tear it...you know why.... because I trust you now as you trust me enough to read your mind^^ Remember to think about what you just wrote, know something you do at 12am last night plzzz...

I can go on and go on... Justification is based on logical move done in certain situation. "if one can justify killing a person by self-defense, I bet anyone can justify tearing a paper up"
Message: Posted by: charliewerner (Nov 2, 2011 02:22AM)
Just thought of 1 more :
5) I tear this up because my invisible friend(ghost) love puzzle....It's fun. And burn the piece one by one... and writing appear on arm... scary
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Nov 12, 2011 06:06AM)
[quote]
On 2011-11-02 03:17, charliewerner wrote:
Reason of tearing?
1) Paper just make it easier so spectator to recall what he just write then what he just think. Hence, you tear it up as you plan to read his mind no the writing.

2) Some magician have good ear, so please write down what you think and show to them and please don't say it out. Take back the paper, and say some magician have good eye sight, I tear this up because I really honestly want to test my mind reading skill.

3) What? You write the spelling of the item? I cant read spelling, it too complicated, (tear the paper up )and ask spectator draw what he just written.

4) At first I ask you write it down, because I don't trust you. Now you see me tear it...you know why.... because I trust you now as you trust me enough to read your mind^^ Remember to think about what you just wrote, know something you do at 12am last night plzzz...

I can go on and go on... Justification is based on logical move done in certain situation. "if one can justify killing a person by self-defense, I bet anyone can justify tearing a paper up"
[/quote]

You are rehashing old material here. You don't need to justify anything.

Quit thinking like a magician. Think like a mindreader.

The writing appearing on the arm is overkill.

You need to read more, think more and write less.
Message: Posted by: Brainbu$ter (May 30, 2012 10:05AM)
Charles Foster likely invented billet work (during his seances in the 1860s-1880s), though there is no indication that he ever tore--or even burned--one. His pupil/assistant, Bert Reese (who did burn billets in his later years, when failing memory and eyesight led him to abandon his earlier sophisticated techniques), probably knew about the classical centre tear BY AT LEAST THE TURN OF THE CENTURY (1900...caps mine).

-Doug Dyment from R2D2
Message: Posted by: ValeCavaliero (Jan 8, 2019 10:52PM)
Very interesting -
and what about the first Instant Acces CT ever released?

Thanks