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Topic: Will the Metaverse change magic?
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Nov 19, 2021 04:59PM)
Just musing about if the Metaverse will change magic? I mean the cell phone alone caused new tricks to be invented using the "new media". I'm guessing it will for this advance, too. Doing a card trick ibn the Metaverse "Just pick a card, virtually any card."
Message: Posted by: funsway (Nov 20, 2021 07:46AM)
For me, nothing can change magic - it is what it is, inexplicable phenomina that we pretend at.
Puzzles are not magic. Skill demonstrations are not magic. Claiming any cause is not magic. Revealing how a trick is done is not magic.

So, I imagine you are referring to the concept of magic mangled by marketers, Hollywood and sellers of tricks.

What do people today consider to be magic or even magical? What do they expect of a magician? Do folks even experience astonishment or Awe&wonder as I do?
I do not know, but do not trust any opinion on the Internet as being indicative of that a person will experience with live magic effects.

I am sure the masses will have their notion of magic mangled further by phantoms like "metaverse" and unsocial media in general. (illusions and phantoms are not the same)

On the plus side, I am sure that in the future a well presented live magic effect that cannot be found on YouTube will cause a reaction different from what one sees on the Metaverse as "fool me."
Will that be called magic a century from now? Most folks today seem more adept at deception, lies, obfuscation and phantom problems that any magician of yesteryear. But that ain't magic.

Whatever it evolves to in name, the ability of one person to challenge the current concept of "impossible" will have an audience. The use of anything electronic means "trick."
Is a trick in a fake universe a new reality? Maybe anything authentic or truthful will be seen as magic. Rare at least.

Just musing, of course ...
Message: Posted by: Dannydoyle (Nov 20, 2021 10:39AM)
No it won’t.
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Nov 20, 2021 07:50PM)
I was referring to the advent of something new, the Metaverse, and perhaps you could tell us how you would use it, as a magician? What I'm saying is, how will it affect magic the way the cell phone affected magic. Certainly it will have some impact. I haven't even learned any of the cell phone tricks, but I'm aware of them. I haven't even tried Virtual Reality goggles, but am aware of them. I'm afraid it will be upon us before we know it. I think there will be people trying to use the new media to do magic with...so I guess I have to disagree with you. To be so sure that it won't have an effect seems like lack of imagination in a way.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Nov 21, 2021 01:59AM)
"how will it affect magic the way the cell phone affected magic."

and how is that? New tricks - not magic. Involving technology as a cause - not magic.

You say, "I haven't even learned any of the cell phone tricks." Exactly! It led to a proliferation of tricks. That isn't magic.

So, there may be a problem here of what you mean by "magic."

I have yet to see a cellphone trick that the audience perceives as magic. Entertaining? Yes. Astonishing? Sometimes. Inexplicable? Nope!

If there is an impact it is having observers now say about about a performance - "Must be an electronic gimmick here somewhere."

Another view is that performance magic is not possible in a Metaverse. Magicians deal with creating illusions - a fictional or theatrical demonstration of something real.
The concept of impossible is based on real comparisons, even if it is only "not possible for me."

Augmented reality does not deal with an illusion. It deals with a phantom - a fictional or theatrical demonstration of something imagined or made up by someone else.
So, demonstrating something apparently impossible is no longer inexplicable. It is "explained" by pretending that what you experience is real. Fun, but not magic.

I agree that some will call it magic, just as new Blog is calling cheesemaking magic. You can kill the word, but no the concept.

If you go and see Danny perform live and are are taken to awe&wonder beyond astonishment, and know that he did not download an app or pass out goggles,
what will you call the experience? If you think a Metaverse session is magic, what do you now call a live experience?

it is difficult to join musing when I don't know what you mean by "magic."
Message: Posted by: Deckstacker (Nov 21, 2021 06:53AM)
Funsway (and others)- I am old enough to recall owning a college textbook for a freshman Speech class, in which book there was a diagram whose caption was "Communication." The diagram itself contained 3 elements: a box labeled "Sender," another box labeled "Receiver," and an arrow labeled "Message" which pointed 'backwards' from the latter towards the former. The overall diagram was meant to illustrate what was at that time (ca. 1960) a breakthrough concept, namely, that communication begins not with the Sender of the Message, as had formerly been supposed and taught, but rather with the Receiver.

I posit here that what most of us likely mean by "magic" is an experience that originates within the audience (Receiver) and not the magician/performer (Sender). I do this by way of attempting to establish some sort of solid foundation of understanding between us. Then perhaps we may all proceed with our musings together in the same direction. If not, however--if some of us cling to a definition of magician as creator or "maker" of an illusion in the way that poets are thought by some to be--then I despair of our ability ever to reach a consensus about what we mean by "magic" and ought perhaps to abandon the attempt. Just my tuppence' worth.
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Nov 21, 2021 05:05PM)
I started this about the Metaverse just to try to find out...besides avatars, will there be possible Virtual cards for card tricks, as an example. I was positing it as more of a question...similar to how magic started being done on cell phone...coin tricks, card tricks, and more. I'm worried that there will be a flood of possibilities that I won't know how to use, with Virtual Reality.
So far I only know of avatars of us and our friends so we can all be at a concert and seem to be together with out friends. As for what I mean by magic in this context, I just mean (as a question) will there be virtual cards for Metaverse card tricks, and virtual coins for Metaverse coin tricks...the way apps are available to do magic on the cell phone. Vanish, reappearance, transposition, levitation, breaking rules of science, thought transference, etc. are some of the magical effects. I'll simplify to card tricks or coin tricks, or does a mental trick fall more into the realm of possibilities?
Message: Posted by: funsway (Nov 21, 2021 06:49PM)
Deckstacker, check out https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?forum=27&topic=231013&start=100#17

with his permission, I include this notion on my novel "Two Cabins."
Message: Posted by: David Todd (Nov 22, 2021 05:16AM)
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it , but it seems to me that in a "virtual reality" environment magic as a performance art would not have any particular value , because everyone can do "magic" in VR . In VR everyone can fly and have various other "powers". It will be taken for granted. But in the real world you can still amaze someone with a well-executed bit of sleight of hand.
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Nov 23, 2021 03:34PM)
I'm a sleight-of-hand artist. I don't even know about all the apps to do tricks with cell phones, but they're out there. I'm just wondering if there will evolve tricks specially for magicians in the Metaverse just like happened in the cell phone apps for magicians. There is a whole area of the Café for apps (cell phone).
I wasn't really talking about flying. I specifically was asking if there will be apps where a magician could meet with a friend in the Meta, and do a card trick or coin trick for them.
So far, many people are saying "no it won't", but it may be upon us soon. But there is a pause. The gov't is investigating if Meta will be dangerous to the public.
I posed this question to the guys on the Apps section, too, to see if they know anything brewing with, let's say, beyond cell phone apps tricks.
Message: Posted by: George Ledo (Nov 23, 2021 06:45PM)
The metaverse?

A marketing ploy by a high-tech company to get people online all the time, connecting everything for the sole purpose of collecting users' information to sell to other marketers to make more money?

I think it'll change magic for those who elect to become infused in the metaverse and while they are inside it. For others, not a bit.
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Nov 25, 2021 06:35AM)
I'm just asking if anyone knows if apps are being developed to do magic tricks with the Meta, just like what happened with cell phone apps to do magic tricks. George.
Message: Posted by: Fedora (Nov 25, 2021 09:49AM)
[quote]On Nov 25, 2021, gregg webb wrote:
I'm just asking if anyone knows if apps are being developed to do magic tricks with the Meta, just like what happened with cell phone apps to do magic tricks. George. [/quote]

To answer this question directly, in terms of facebook meta I'm not aware
of any magic apps being developed currently.
The reason is that because it isn't released yet it's hard to predict how it will work.

Oculus probably isn't a good predictor because it's primarily ment for video games,
There's some social vr apps but they're clunky.

A couple years back professor maxwell released a magic set called "vr magic" it had
instructions that would become videos if you looked at it thru a vr headset,
Not sure why they couldn't just let you watch a video so you can see your hands at the
same time...
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Nov 26, 2021 03:32PM)
Just put on these glasses... gonna be a while before that's okay.

In the now - consider the Rayban glasses... and whether or not you are using them. ;)

AR is a while away. Let's come back to this in a year or two after glasses with heads-up displays are available. :)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Nov 26, 2021 10:37PM)
A while back Alfie Solomans knew an optitician who was a magician mate.

Message: Posted by: tommy (Nov 29, 2021 09:09AM)
Magic is and magicians are from the world of dreams and it is conjured up with a wonderful science. Normally magicians do not conjure up the world of dreams for people who are asleep and dreaming. However, some magicians are stage hypnotists. Hypnosis seems to me to be like Virtual Reality and I was just wondering if stage hypnotists could use it someway.
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Dec 12, 2021 02:31PM)
Message: Posted by: tommy (Dec 13, 2021 05:21AM)
"Abstract: Hypnosis is well documented in the literature in the management of acute and chronic pain. Virtual reality (VR) is currently gaining credibility in the same fields as hypnosis for medical applications. Lately, the combination of hypnosis and VR was considered. The aim of this scoping review is to understand the current studied contexts and effects of virtual reality hypnosis (VRH) for the management of pain."


The combination of hypnosis and VR sounds interesting.
Message: Posted by: funsway (Dec 13, 2021 09:46AM)
I recall a science fiction short story in which a person's eyelids were removed so as not to interfere with non-stop screen viewing.
A person unwilling to work could be placed in stasis - no pain, and the payments for physical care less than rent and food.
Message: Posted by: Deckstacker (Dec 13, 2021 11:16AM)
[quote]On Dec 13, 2021, funsway wrote:
I recall a science fiction short story in which a person's eyelids were removed so as not to interfere with non-stop screen viewing.
A person unwilling to work could be placed in stasis - no pain, and the payments for physical care less than rent and food. [/quote]
I believe the sci-fi story you refer to may be "Spectator Sport" by John D. MacDonald, originally published in the February 1950 issue of "Thrilling Wonder Stories."
Message: Posted by: gregg webb (Dec 13, 2021 04:34PM)
In Clockwork Orange they had the Lodavico Technique with wires that held the eyelids open. They then bombarded hypnotic images.