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Topic: D'Lites?
Message: Posted by: Close.Up.Dave (Jun 28, 2004 07:09PM)
I don't use them at all due to the fact that pretty much every laymen who has walked past a magiczone or shop owns them (and because I just don't like them). But a few months ago I heard that Rocco wasn't the creator of them though it seems he has been passing them off as he has (in my eyes at least). Does anyone know who created D'lites (if it wasn't Rocco?)?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jun 28, 2004 07:49PM)
There is a very nice video of the things in use... that features some intersting poeple. Have a look at the guy in the lab coat.
Message: Posted by: irossall (Jun 29, 2004 05:31AM)
David, if you don't like D'lites you should not use them but if you don't use them because "every laymen" knows what they are and how they work, I think you would be doing yourself and the audience an injustice. Knowing how an effect is done does not necessarily ruin the enjoyment of the effect. Most of us here at the Magic Café' know how the Cups & Balls are done but I believe that most of us still enjoy watching this old effect, and new routines and story lines are always popping up to keep the Cups & Balls fresh and new.
Who doesn't know about or own a TT? Yet most of us not only have one (or a dozen) but we use them and many of us never leave home without one.
I think that D'lites are a beautiful effect in the right hands.
Jeff McBride has a new routine using D'lites (or a much brighter clone) that was pure pleasure to watch and it really showed us that it is the creative side of Magic that really makes the ordinary into the extraordinary.
As far as Rocco being the creator of D'lites, I got that same impression (just look at his licence plate on his car).
Iven :patty:
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jun 29, 2004 11:49AM)
I think Rocco was the one who popularized them, and worked out the videos, etc. but I do believe another person actually created the prop.
Message: Posted by: Xavier (Jul 1, 2004 12:27AM)
Juan Mayoral was the creator.

It's such a pity his effect was stolen and ripped off like this.
Message: Posted by: x-treem (Jul 3, 2004 12:33AM)
Created in 1987 by Roger Mayfarth, for Rocco.

For all you ever wanted to know check out http://www.dlite.com
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 3, 2004 06:02PM)
Sultangali Shukurov and Sara Kabagujina, from Alma Ata, Soviet Union, many many years ago, tied for first place with Ger Copper at the FISM in Brussells.

Flip and I stood there in tears at the end of their act, which FEATURED "lights" at the fingertips, that moved from one hand to the other, and from one person to the other... etc. etc.

It was one of the greatest magical acts I have ever seen. I tried to book them for the IBM and "almost" go them, but their VISAs were denied at the last second. (This was during the Cold War era).

This pre-dated D'Lite by many years. If someone can recall the year I would appreciate it.
Message: Posted by: ChrisG (Jul 3, 2004 09:15PM)
Pete
I got this from the following site.
http://www.vanderwalmagic.com/linkstomagicsites/

1979--On the 30th, at FISM in Brusels there is a tie for the Grand Prix between Ger Copper of The Netherlands and Sara Kabigujina & Sultangali Shukurov of Russia.

ChrisG
Message: Posted by: Hideo Kato (Jul 4, 2004 07:45AM)
Thank you Biro-san for the important information. Mayoral vs Rocco (Mayfarth) battle has been an exciting matter to me. The information cleared my suspision. Both were not orinaginator.

Hideo Kato
Message: Posted by: matthewjohnson (Jul 13, 2004 04:49PM)
I remember a number of years ago Jay Scott Berry came to Vancouver Canada and demonstrated his Finger Fazers. At the time he claimed these were the original lights from fingers and that Rocco had got the idea from him.
I am aware that Mayoral uses a version of the D'Lites, infact many years ago (more than I care to remember), I purchased Mayoral's whole lights set which includes two of his D'Lite tip's, a stomach light, a mouth light and two ear lights......truly a fantastic set and so much more than just a d'lite.

However I know rocco has a patent on the D'Lite tip which is something not many magicians do, so I guess the patent says he owns it now.

Cheers :)
Matt J.
Message: Posted by: Steve Oxford (Jul 15, 2004 09:31AM)
Hmmm? How does one get a patent on something that has already been on the market? D'lights are great, but there have been similar items before, obviously the performers Mr. Biro saw were doing this way before D'lights, so what gives with a patent being issued after the item has already been out?
Just curious
S.
Message: Posted by: ChrisG (Jul 18, 2004 04:29PM)
Inventing is only the beginning. If you don't send in a patent application and receive a patent your invention is subject to being stolen. Also patents have a life span that require extensions if approved.

Modifications such as using LED's or miniature batteries could be cause for issuing a new patent.

There could be many reasons for this.

ChrisG
Message: Posted by: mattisdx (Aug 1, 2004 12:00PM)
Who knows who inveneted them, personally I think they're just a novelty like black tiger cards :(
Message: Posted by: Andini (Aug 13, 2004 10:31AM)
Matt J., Jay Scott Berry said the same thing at our lecture. He claimed that he was the original D'Lite creator, but I never believed him.
Message: Posted by: e-man (Oct 12, 2004 12:21AM)
Mr.Electric should have considered producing light bulbs from his finger tips?
Message: Posted by: newman1066 (Oct 12, 2004 02:19AM)
Re. The patent holder on D'Lites:

On 12 October 1995 a Roger C. Mayfarth of Linden, New Jersey applied for a U.S. patent on a "Pressure actuated light with digit accommodating housing means".

I would wager if dealers sealed their TTs and FTs in a 12" square box with a big Mylar label stating that the item inside was A Genuine, No Batteries Required Version, Of The Multi-Purpose Digit Accommodating Housing Means, the $1000 price tag sought by some of this board's participants to separate the truly motivated magicians-in-progress from the common herd of ribbon clerks would become a reality.

On 27 May 1997 U.S. Pat. No. 5,632,548 was granted to this applicant.

The most interesting section of Mr. Mayfarth's application, at least to me, was the other U.S. patents cited in the invention's background.

For example:
U.S. Pat. No. 5,188.447 granted to parties Chiang and Ratcliffe for an illuminating system inserted in the heel of a shoe that is activated by the pressure present when walking or running.

This device bears a distinct similarity to the red lights incorporated in the construction of a new style of famous brand athletic shoes. The media blitz that both preceded and accompanied the release of the new shoes in the 90's carried with it the challenge for the prospective owner to, "Take back the night!"

The product's popularity was rather short lived as their target market quickly discovered that those bright flashing red lights put them at a distinct disadvantage when fleeing the local gendarmerie after dark.
The wearers were probably dismayed to learn the feature that allowed them to, "Take back the night!" failed to come with any mechanism to turn off their "fleeing felon beacons" save ditching them mid-stride and continuing their flight barefoot.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 12, 2004 06:39PM)
My guess is if no one else that had this item patented it, then the one that got smart and did so is the winner (maybe not ethically, but legally).
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 13, 2004 09:47AM)
Nice thing about the current market is that even patents have no meaning, as you can easily ship an item offshore for reproduction and have thousands ready to sell and nobody can stop you.

All that MIGHT stop such a process is an ethical component in our community.

BUT for that to work, people will have to abandon any claims to copied material, and work almost directly with the inventors.
Message: Posted by: jdknight (Nov 4, 2004 03:30PM)
I know it always seems to be different for magicians, but if one person invented an item, you can probably bet that someone else has already invented it as well. Regardless of whether or not anyone else is aware of it. With nearly 4 (?) billion people in the world, it would seem to be rare indeed that only one person could invent something independant of someone else.

You know, it was with great dismay that I see window cornices made from wooden molding being sold in every Home Depot or Expo, and Lowes store, as I invented these years ago... but never patented them (who would pay good money for such a simple thing?).

Oh Well... you can bet that I will patent my wooden kitchen utensils...someday!
Message: Posted by: jonnycardel (Nov 12, 2004 10:44AM)
When ever I intent a new effect it's not long until I see it somewhere else. more so with internet
Message: Posted by: Dino Bondesan (Dec 29, 2004 09:56PM)
Juan Mayoral came up with his stuff to a lecture in Brazil.
He is amazing with eletronic magic, a big pyrotechnic. Most of his products uses led's, a floating cane with led's inside, his routine with dlite´s are also great. His canes are amazing but all the things were too expensive. He doesn´t use magic that need sleight of hand but his act is something that I have never seen before, something that made me cry! I'm not kidding.

So, comming back to the topic, in his lecture he said that he was the creator of the dlites...
Message: Posted by: Ignore me... (Dec 30, 2004 12:07AM)
Hmm...

It was my impression that a patent can be taken away if there is proven to be "prior art" in the public domain that are the same thing. So, if there were performances using d'vices prior to Rocco "inventing" and patenting his, he would be on shaky ground. If such devices also use the same system of triggering the d'vice, this would be the patent killer.

For example, after "Little Nemo" creator Winsor McCay had developed animation, someone learned the process from him, and then got a patent. He sued McCay for violating the patent, and for using the processes that he himself had learned from Mccay. McCay proved that he had been using animated films from before the patent application date, and the patent was revoked, and animation put into the public domain.

I've been curious about what will happen if Rocco finally goes after someone for producing a d'vice. I think that he would be a fool to do so, because he would likely lose any court action based on his patent, and I think he knows it.

Incidentally, isn't it interesting that Rocco appears to also be ripping off Reed McClintock's Stars and Hexes? It looks that way, but it would be interesting to hear others' take on this.

The following link is to the relevant Genii forum. Please, moderators, allow this to be judged on its own merits, as it pertains to the discussion.

http://geniimagazine.com/forum/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001440
Message: Posted by: Shenaniganz (Dec 30, 2004 02:55PM)
I made mine with a yellow LED fro radioshack. Cost about $5.00, and looks just like hot charcoal. Great fun for the BBQ.
Message: Posted by: swifthand (Feb 2, 2011 07:39PM)
I've done a quick patent search and it doesn't seem to be listed, at least not in Europe. I guess that's the problem with patents, what is patented in the US can be ripped off elsewhere ...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Feb 2, 2011 09:39PM)
Actually, if Mayoral never patented his invention, then it makes no difference.

Maybe you should all read James Burke's [i]Connections[/i].

Example, in roughly 1974, several different people independently came up with the tip-out move with the thumb tip. It happened because of a precipitating event, the invention of the king sized Vernet thumb tip, which made it practical for the vanish of a silk.

Salvano was one, Jay Scott Berry was another, Harry Collins was yet another. Slydini had his own version of it as well. Each of them had invented it independently of the other. The same thing is probably true of D'Lites.

Rocco had one special advantage over everyone else with D'Lites. D'Lites had no patent of record anywhere that could be searched by the US Patent Office. He hired an attorney, got the search done and paid the fee.

If all of these other fellows felt that Rocco had violated some kind of agreement or whatever, they should have sued him. Their attorneys probably advised them that they didn't have a case.
Message: Posted by: fortasse (Feb 5, 2011 07:35PM)
My sister gave me a set of the D'Lites for Christmas. I love them! Great thing about them is that there are a thousand-and-one ways to use them. The TT updated for the high-tech age!
Message: Posted by: mindguru (Feb 5, 2011 08:37PM)
I remember when a magic dealer performed it for me years ago I thought it was amazing. I even ended up buying them but I found out it wasn't as easy as he made it look and that it wasn't really suited for me, but when someone can perform it skilfully it is beautiful to watch.
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Feb 5, 2011 09:50PM)
One thing I have been told with a patent, is that you have to describe how something is made in the patent and it then becomes public knowledge for someone else to make. It just makes money for the lawyers when you have to fight this.
Message: Posted by: wally (Dec 4, 2011 10:43AM)
Has anyone got this http://www.viennamagic.com/shop/shop.php?mode=show_detail&lang=de&group=7&sid=33e95bcb4ed558e2ede5fe443c37206e&s=&id=638
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Dec 4, 2011 04:07PM)
[quote]
On 2011-02-05 22:50, Dan Ford wrote:
One thing I have been told with a patent, is that you have to describe how something is made in the patent and it then becomes public knowledge for someone else to make. It just makes money for the lawyers when you have to fight this.
[/quote]

Yes, that's true. You have to submit a detailed drawing as well as all of the sources that you can find. That's the law. Even though the application becomes public knowledge, it does not allow other people to make the item.

You have probably seen the phrase "patent applied for" or an abbreviation of it on some item you have recently purchased. This is a warning for those who want to knock off your idea that you have registered your material and you are expecting the patent process to succeed.

Many magicians have patented various items they either made, invented or otherwise created. One example is John Gaughan's "Flying." I guarantee that very few people could make one of these in their garage.
Message: Posted by: 204rags (Feb 10, 2012 09:30PM)
I am not concerned with making and selling them (and patents) ................I just enjoy the device and think it is a really great item. I have had lots of fun with mine !!!!
Message: Posted by: Dan Ford (Feb 13, 2012 05:49PM)
[quote]
On 2011-12-04 17:07, Bill Palmer wrote:
[quote]
On 2011-02-05 22:50, Dan Ford wrote:
One thing I have been told with a patent, is that you have to describe how something is made in the patent and it then becomes public knowledge for someone else to make. It just makes money for the lawyers when you have to fight this.
[/quote]

Yes, that's true. You have to submit a detailed drawing as well as all of the sources that you can find. That's the law. Even though the application becomes public knowledge, it does not allow other people to make the item.

You have probably seen the phrase "patent applied for" or an abbreviation of it on some item you have recently purchased. This is a warning for those who want to knock off your idea that you have registered your material and you are expecting the patent process to succeed.

Many magicians have patented various items they either made, invented or otherwise created. One example is John Gaughan's "Flying." I guarantee that very few people could make one of these in their garage.
[/quote]

Trust me, no one would have the patience to make my type of eggs, even if they knew how to make them, but I will still keep it to myself.
Message: Posted by: afoi (Nov 20, 2012 01:34AM)
I`m a working full time magician, need a good quality and reliable prop, Juan is the inventor, Rocco is the one patent it, china ones are so much brighter and better quality. which one should I buy from?
Message: Posted by: Jim Sparx (Dec 3, 2012 03:08PM)
I was recently at a Chinese site and came across, Mayoral's, "Meteors" trick for $46.00. I did a check with the Lota Bowl search browser and came up with the same trick for $400 to $500. The Chinese site uses the same exact picture that is displayed for the expensive version.
I have no interest in purchasing either version but was quite shocked at the difference in price.
In so far as the question asked above, "which one shall I buy" - anyone care to hazard a guess which one he will buy?

BTW, the description of the trick on the Chinese site is an exact copy of the original description.
Message: Posted by: Vick (Apr 3, 2013 07:02PM)
On 12 October 1995 a Roger C. Mayfarth of Linden, New Jersey applied for a U.S. patent on a "Pressure actuated light with digit accommodating housing means.......

I know a little about Dlite's having worked at a magic zone hawking D'Lites, met Roger Mayfarth and Rocco and have featured D'lites in my act for over 10 years

I don't know the history of magic performed with lights at the fingertips prior to Mayfarth and D'Lites. The best I can make out Mayfarth starting producing D'lites as we know them now, got the patent (he's had a few ideas and some spin off products but nothing as popular) and brought Rocco along to be the face of his effects. Mayfarth and Rocco are both are intelligent, as nice as can be in person and Rocco is hilarious. The character you see when he performs is really Rocco. Many people myself included could tell great stories about Rocco. My story isn't proper for an open forum but nothing bad.

The D'lite is a great device for many performers and their marketing is genius (weather you agree with it or not).

Occasionally I run across an audience member who knows what they are but I've a an additional effect in the act that adds to the routine. I perform D'lites for all age and adult audiences, including corporate gigs.

Have gotten some crazy responses as to where the light actually comes from including lasers in the ceiling and walls that track my hands ... if only