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Topic: GAZZO books
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 9, 2004 12:22AM)
James in L.A. just got the two new Gazzo books to me. I shall be going over them the next few days and will comment... FIRST IMPRESSION... FABULOUS...
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Jul 9, 2004 12:41AM)
I agree! I just got my copies in the mail. I read through Krowd Keepers and am just starting the Street Cups and Balls.

[i]EVERYTHING[/i] is in there: lines, "bits of business," ... everything. He could have left out the handling of the Cups and Balls altogether and it would still be a great book!

In Danny Hustle's Foreword to Krowd Keepers he says,"Gazzo very graciously let me watch him do the show he does when he knows the magic community is not looking."

I'm afraid the only time I'll see Gazzo is on video, or the occasional magic event, so I'll probably never get to see first hand the real "magic" that is Gazzo.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 9, 2004 01:43AM)
When can I get a copy?
Message: Posted by: cfrye (Jul 9, 2004 02:21AM)
http://www.magictricks.co.uk/prodshow.asp?code=484
Message: Posted by: Big Jeff (Jul 9, 2004 11:00AM)
When will these be available in the US?

Thanks,

Big Jeff
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 9, 2004 12:50PM)
The books can be bought now from the UK distributor. Everyone has said it takes less than a week to arrive. (Correct me if I'm wrong on this.) I believe, the books will be sold in the US when the UK stock is exhausted and when Gazzo starts his US tour, whichever comes first.
Looking forward to Pete's review and thoughts.

Jim
Message: Posted by: MagiUlysses (Jul 9, 2004 01:02PM)
Greetings and Salutations,

JamesinLA is correct. I takes a week, in some cases less, to get them from the UK. Unless the deal has been withdrawn, MagicTricks was offering a deal on buying both books at once, with free shipping, and if you're a new customer, they knock a couple of additional Pounds off the deal. It's the way to go.

Now that that is out of the way, James, have you heard anything, tentative or otherwise on a Gazzo lecture tour, seminar, workshop or otherwise. The Las Vegas Magic Invitational lists him as a lecturer for their event in September, but all things being equal, I'd rather attend an event something like he had on The Islands, geared toward busking magic.

So, what do you know, what have you heard? Throw me a bone, here!

Have a great weekend!

Joe in KC

Make magic happen, live a great adventure!
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 9, 2004 01:12PM)
The exchange rate:

21 pounds is approx. $40 dollars.

I just found out myself and purchased both books.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 9, 2004 01:37PM)
Joe,
I will let you know as soon as I hear myself. Thanks and hope you have a great weekend too. I'm going to try to start mine early tonight.
Frank,
I look forward to your thoughts on the books.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 10, 2004 12:55PM)
I have finished reading Gazzo's "Street Cups and Balls" and I have to tell you the material is FABULOUS.

It goes into EVERY detail. How to hold the big loads, how to use the pouch and why.

The "AND WHY" of almost everything in the book is worth ten times the price. Gazzo gives you not only how but why on each move.

He offers advice on everything from what to wear, what to say, what to do for almost every situation that can come up from noisy bikers, to small crowds, bad weather, drunks, you name it, he's experienced it and gives the reader all the inside dope.

MY COMPLAINT?

I wish it was a Hard Cover book, the material deserves a better presentation, it should be a classic for any student of the Cups and Balls, or one who wants to work the streets OR TRADE SHOWS.

Highly recommended.

(Gazzo, how about the second edition going hard cover?)
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 11, 2004 03:40AM)
Pete,
Thanks for the great review of Gazzo and Simon's Street Cups and Balls book.
Now we're looking forward to your review of the Krowd Keepers book, too.

Best,
Jim
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 11, 2004 11:53PM)
Re-read the book again today and realized he has put every line, every gag, EVERYTHING in print. I know that no one can be Gazzo, but the material in here will really aid anyone trying to build a solid routine with the cups and balls.

There are two sequences that I know I have seen him do... but until I re-read the book I didn't realize how important they are in setting up the trick.

And there is one line that I always WANTED to use, but didn't, but now can as it is in print.

Even though my way doesn't need the BIG LOADS and POUCH use, it is nice to see the real handling explained in such detail. Finger by finger positions and movements, how to load the big stuff without flashing... it is all here.

Thanks to the GAAAAZZZZZ for being so unselfish with the real work.
Message: Posted by: swatchel-omi (Jul 12, 2004 01:49PM)
I ordered the books from magictricks.co.uk last Friday, July 9th, and received them today,Monday July 12th !

3 days including a weekend, from overseas! Can't get any faster than that.

I was able to skim through them this morning and I believe they will become classics.

I agree with Pete, the Cups and Balls book deserves a hardbound edition. There are some great photos of a younger Gazzo and the illustrations are about as clear as any I've ever seen. What a treasure !

Krowd Keeping looks like it might be the definitive manual of busking magic. You can tell a lot of thought went into it. Kudos to Danny and James !

I look forward to a a closer read and re-read of these books. These will definately end up in my working library, always close at hand.


Joe
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 12, 2004 04:02PM)
Thanks, Joe, for the kind words on the two books. Please let us know what you think of and learn from "The Art of Krowd Keeping" after you read it through. I learned a lot from working on the book with Danny and of course the man himself. That experience has helped my show a lot.

Best,
Jim
Message: Posted by: vernon (Jul 12, 2004 04:56PM)
Ditto everything said about the books, the workshop the lecture, all the best stuff to improve your performance and make your hats bigger. And good company to boot. A legend in his own lifetime.
Vernon
Message: Posted by: chrisrkline (Jul 14, 2004 07:08PM)
Based upon what I read here, I just bought both books. Considering I am constructing my own street table and leather pouch, I thought this might be nice. I have Gazzo's booklet On the Cup and Balls, and was starting to work on his routine. This will be great. And thanks Pete about being so honest about being willing to use something straight from his routine. That is nice to hear, partiularly for those of us who are fairly new. I will not try to be a clone of Gazzo, but I also don't want to be afraid to borrow here and there.

I will add that I did get free shipping to the states and two pounds off the price. Can't beat it.

One more. I ordered from the Midwest here in the States at four yesterday afternoon. The books have already been shipped. I could have gotten the two books together at a better deal and they went ahead and took an additional two-pounds off the price. Nice service.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Bair (Jul 15, 2004 02:52PM)
Hi, shame that Gazzo retired, after talking to Gary Animal (Gazzo's friend), he says you struggle to make a lot of money on a cups act. Are there any street performers here that can make a lot off cups and balls? I've just bought a set and I'm gonna work on the act then show and then decide for myself. James, is Gazzo planning a tour in the US because he sold all his stuff to collectors. I'll have to borrow the other Gazzo books of my freinds as I've only got Read Between the One Lines. That is a great book.
Matt
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 16, 2004 03:53AM)
Matt,
Yes, the word is that Gazzo is going to have a US lecture tour.

Jim
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 16, 2004 04:41PM)
Jim,

I should be getting my books any day now.
Can't wait.

Frank
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 16, 2004 06:40PM)
Great, Frank. Looking forward to your thoughts on the books.

(Thanks for the silver dollars! Can't wait to get them too.)

Jim
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Jul 17, 2004 05:51PM)
Same here, I ordered last Thursday, so I am hoping to have them soon.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 19, 2004 07:06PM)
Great. We've got Frank and BroDavid's reviews to look forward to. Two guys who work in the sunshine.

Best,

Jim
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jul 19, 2004 09:20PM)
Talked to Gazzo on the Ameche today. He's in Boston.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 20, 2004 12:49PM)
My books arrived. I like them so far. I will provide details later but the tone of them is great.

Good work Danny and Jim.

Frank
Message: Posted by: Whiterabbit (Jul 20, 2004 07:48PM)
I'm a bit nervous about putting my tuppence in as I don't do a lot of street stuff (it's about 25% of what I do and that is mainly in the fairly civilised Renfaire environment).

But I've received the books, love the tone, level, and explanations. There are one or two typos - but these are classics.

I teach professionally and was one of team that came second in a national award for teaching adults - so I can appreciate how beautifully most of the things are explained.

I only have two small criticisms

a) I'd like to have seen illustrations of the cup and ball positions in the routine section to make it easier to follow (it still is relatively easy though)

b) Gazzo, if you're listening please combine The Art of Krowd Keeping, Street Cups and Balls and Read between the One Lines into one hardbound volume.

Anyway, great stuff and I look forward to employing these books in my magic.
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Jul 20, 2004 09:09PM)
I got mine today! Fast service indeed!

I read the Art of Krowd Keeping once already, and will be reading it again shortly. The writing style is light but to the point, and my wife (who already know that I am not real well balanced) was looking stragnely at me as I was nodding my head in agreement as I read.

A lot of excellent information and terrifiv advice.

Now I will digest my first reading, and then read it a couple more times to pick up what I know that I have missed. But this little book definitley tells it right!

Congratulation to James and Danny for their part in this little gem. And tanks to Gazzo for letting us into this storehouse of knowledge that can only come from a lifetime of well examined performances.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: awfulawful (Jul 21, 2004 09:14AM)
Although usually a patient person, I cannot wait to get my books. I have been tweaking the finish to my C&B routine for months now, and some help from Gazzo may get it where I want it to be.
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Jul 21, 2004 10:24AM)
I was dead tired last night when I sat down with the cups and Balls book, and it kept me awake right up to the last page. And when I had finished, I kept turning pages, looking desparately, hoping I had missed something and there was a page or two more that I had not yet read. But alas - I had read it all.

I loved it. It was like sitting down with Gazzo (except he didn't insult me) and hearing him tell it like is is. He covers his cups and balls routine down to every move, the handling, and the reasoning. But he gives so much more of himself in the stories that help provide the background for who he is , and for his routine. The book even has a a couple of pages of those incredible Gazzo one liners that some of us can use, and some that only Gazzo can get away with. ;)

I loved the story about him using the day-old chicks (to make a film crew happy) and how one of the chicks.... Oh no! You don't get it here. Buy the book!

But the content is just right! It tells you everything, and the line art illustrations that show everything from the finger palm to the wand pickup with ball palmed to the tip over load, to the melon load, are all absolutley first rate. Everything about his cups and balls is clearly covered in this book. And the many pictures of Gazzo a few pounds ago, are interesting too.

I found it tremendously entertaining and extrememly enlightening.

This book stands alone as the penultimate treatise on Gazzo's cups and balls. If you could only have one book on it, this is the book.

I already had his cups and bals video, so I was a bit hesitant to get the book because of that. But I am glad I did. This book has really fleshed out the video for me. Things I saw and that he taught on the cups and balls video are just so much clearer with this text and the illustrations.

You get more of his motivations than on the video. And you get a clearer view of the mechanics involved. But you cant beat seeing a performance to see timing and pace, and interacting with an audience. So I am getting plenty out of both!

If you already have the video, get the book anyway. if you don't have either the video or the book and are thinking seriously about doing cups and balls, get both the book and video. You wont be sorry.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Jim Wilder (Jul 21, 2004 01:49PM)
I received my books and have read them both. I only spent an hour looking through and reading various parts of the cups and balls book.

After thought and reflection, these books are very significant pieces in my collection of magic literature, they stand up just as well as any. If you have not yet acquired these, I encourage you to do so.

James and Danny, you guys have done a fine job. May this encourage you to also pursue another talent you have outside of magic- organizing thoughts, communicating them clearly, and sharing through writing. Again, fantastic work gentlemen.

Sincerely,
Jim
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 21, 2004 02:32PM)
This is wonderful to hear. Thank you to everyone for your comments. We all worked hard on it and am glad to see that it is being of use. It was a labor of love. Love for performing and for the man himself and his generousity in sharing his vast experience and creativity. Now all we need is Danny to stop by and take a bow. (Gaz will save his bows for his paying gigs.)

Jim
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 21, 2004 03:53PM)
Mr. Wilder, your pouch is on it's way.

And Jim, the books are great. I really like them. A must have for any street worker. I was reading them until 2am last night.

Frank
Message: Posted by: mslj (Jul 21, 2004 05:41PM)
I haven't paid a visit to the Café for a while and I'm really pleased at the reviews of the Cups and Balls book.

Gazzo and I spent a lot of time talking about the format for the book and although we discussed hardback we were aware that the first exposure of the book would be the UK lecture tour. The books in their present format, would we felt, sell better than if they were in hardback. However, I do feel that the Cups book would be better suited to hardback and don't dismiss that possibility for the future.

Gazzo has some great ideas on how it could be expanded and thus it is a project on file for the future.

I was really excited at the material that Gazzo offered for the cups book and feel the end result was worth the work that we put into it. So once again many thanks for your kind words.

As an aside I'm working on a DVD of Gazzo's lecture and the material is great. A whole hour of lecture/performance of his street show, plus jokes and stories and sections on Gazzo's philosophy of magic. We are also putting an Gazzo's story of his start in magic, his experience working for the Monte mobs in London and his journey in the States to meet Walter Scott. The whole thing will be over two hours in length and should be available some time in late September/early October.

Cheers

Simon
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 22, 2004 01:01PM)
I read more of the Krowd Keeping book last night and there's a lot of good stuff in there. Techniques I'll try to incorporate at my next gig.

Looking forward to it.

Good job Jim.

Frank
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Jul 22, 2004 02:39PM)
Thanks, Frank. (And thanks for the silver dollars! They're huge. Reminds me of the first time I handled my Gali Gali cups.)

Simon,
Glad you stopped by to soak up some applause for your great job on the cups book. How are things in merry ole?

One thing I would like to add to the Krowd Keepers is that if any gaps appear in your crowd you should immediately and proactively move people to fill those gaps. This will keep the crowd formation "healthy."

Jim
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jul 22, 2004 09:28PM)
I received both books in the mail this morning. Gazzo has really tipped his mitt with this material. If you have any serious notion of doing any kind of busking, you need Krowd Keepers. If you intend to do cups and balls on the street, you need the new Cups and Balls book.

I have known Gazzo for a long time. I can tell you this: he knows what he is talking about, and he tells all that is important and necessary for doing either of these things.

I can't wait to see the expanded version of his Cups and Balls book when he gets through writing it.
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Jul 23, 2004 12:54PM)
I agree with Bill about these books, I am now ready to start my third read of them. There is just so much there that I find more every time I reread them.

But I really wonder what else Gazzo can put into another Cups and Balls book, unless it comes with cups and a pouch ;)

Seriously, I imagine he still has a veritable storehouse of knowledge that he has yet to unleash. And would look forward to reading more. But these books cotain a ton of information.

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Jul 27, 2004 07:34AM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-21 18:41, mslj wrote:
<snip>
As an aside I'm working on a DVD of Gazzo's lecture and the material is great. A whole hour of lecture/performance of his street show, plus jokes and stories and sections on Gazzo's philosophy of magic. We are also putting an Gazzo's story of his start in magic, his experience working for the Monte mobs in London and his journey in the States to meet Walter Scott. The whole thing will be over two hours in length and should be available some time in late September/early October.

Cheers

Simon
[/quote]Just ordered *The Art of Krowd Keeping* and *Street Cups and Balls* at MagicTricks.co.uk..

Can't await reception.. :)

Looking forward to the above mentioned DVD and trust we'll get notified when it is ready..

Cheers
Werner
Message: Posted by: awfulawful (Jul 27, 2004 09:09AM)
I got my books last night, read Krowd Keeping and made it about halfway through Cups & Balls. Both are fantastic. Many thanks to everyone who worked on both of those books. They really are must-haves.
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 27, 2004 12:38PM)
I finished the Krowd Keeping book. It was great. Lots of stuff to try out in the coming weeks.

Good job guys.

Frank
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Jul 29, 2004 05:07AM)
JFYI..the guys at :

http://www.magictricks.co.uk

are incredibly fast!

Ordered the Gazzo stuff the 27th this month..got it today the 29th..great service and really reliable..

That's the store to deal with ....
Off now..no time anymore to entertain you guys.. :) , have to read the Gazzo books :)

Query:

Is there anybody that can point me to some dealer that still can supply :

[b]' Gazzo Cups and Balls' video,[/b]

and

[b]'Gazzo Uncensored' video[/b]

Preferably PAL, but NTSC is OK too.
The usual supplier L&L has currently solely the 'Uncensored' in NTSC, whilst the 'C&B' is
unavailable, but it doesn't pay off to get just a single tape from the USA to DK, so if anybody knows a supplier that can supply both tapes I would be gratefull.

TIA

Rgs.
Werner
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Jul 29, 2004 03:43PM)
Werner,

Try Denny and Lee's. http://www.dennymagic.com

Mark
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Jul 29, 2004 03:49PM)
Here's what I can get for you. PM me if you're interested.

No shipping charges, by the way.

Uncensored: NTSC
CupsAndBalls: Discontinued try ebay. :)



The uncensored video is very good. It's the real thing plus you get several performances. None of them are staged.

Frank
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Jul 30, 2004 02:12AM)
[quote]
On 2004-07-29 16:49, Frank Starsini wrote:
Here's what I can get for you. PM me if you're interested.

No shipping charges, by the way.

Uncensored: NTSC
CupsAndBalls: Discontinued try ebay. :)



The uncensored video is very good. It's the real thing plus you get several performances. None of them are staged.

Frank

[/quote]Hi Frank,
thanx a lot for the offer, very much appreciated..

I'll PM you later today or latest tomorrow!

I've just to await responce to a query I have out at A1-video (Mike Maxwell).

The 'Uncensored' is the most important one of the 2 videos for me, as I am not interested in 'explanations', just want to se the man 'work'..

Thanx again, I'll get back re this by PM..
Rgs.
Werner
Message: Posted by: kOnO (Aug 2, 2004 06:42AM)
' Gazzo Cups and Balls' video,
and
'Gazzo Uncensored' video

Last Friday I contacted Denny & Lee and found they had both video's in stock. I am not sure if they have any now after I ordered mine but you can check with them.

Denny & Lee Magic Studio
Email: dennymagic@aol.com

kOnO
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 2, 2004 06:53AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-02 07:42, kOnO wrote:
' Gazzo Cups and Balls' video,
and
'Gazzo Uncensored' video

Last Friday I contacted Denny & Lee and found they had both video's in stock. I am not sure if they have any now after I ordered mine but you can check with them.


Denny & Lee Magic Studio
Email: dennymagic@aol.com


kOnO[/quote]Thanx a lot for the tip..much appreciated..
Actually I mailed them via their websitemailsystem, several days back, but they didn't answer back.. :(
Maybe they're on holiday?
Anyway, the *Uncensored* I get via Frank.. the C&B I'll try again to find and even contact Dennys again..
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 3, 2004 08:21PM)
I normally do not join the, "The me Too group," but I have had a set of GA cups for awhile and gazzo's tapes and have been working on a new street act for awhile now, so I just ordered Gazzo's books. I will of course post a reveiw as well.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 4, 2004 01:06AM)
Great, Sir T. Look forward to your thoughts.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Aug 4, 2004 04:19AM)
Both the "Gazzo Uncensored" and "Gazzo on the Cups and Balls" are out of production, and will not be re-issued. The School for Scoundrels has no plans to redo them as DVD's or to release them in any form in the future. So if you find a copy left on any of the dealer's shelves, you should grab them.

Gazzo wants to put out his own productions, and we do not want to stand in his way, or to compete with him.

We were very proud and happy to have released these two videos, and hope that Gazzo will have great success with whatever products he comes out with in the future.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 4, 2004 05:36AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-04 05:19, whithaydn wrote:
Both the "Gazzo Uncensored" and "Gazzo on the Cups and Balls" are out of production, and will not be re-issued. [/quote]
Thanks Whit, no doubt your info is correct and at least the "Uncensored" (which is the most important to me, to see the man work) is on its way from Frank.
Re the C&B however, I was informed by "Elmwoodmagic",:

"We have been told that it is currently being re-done for DVD, although we
don't have a date for the release yet."

Maybe Gazzo himself does plan to release it on DVD, I don't know. IMHO, it's worth to get redone/converted to DVD, both of these videos.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 4, 2004 03:12PM)
No, the dvd that Gazzo will be releasing in the future is a new production that was shot during his British lecture tour this summer.

Jim
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Aug 4, 2004 04:28PM)
I believe I can get 16 more of the Uncensored videos if anyone wants one. That's it. After that, they're gone as per Whit.

Werner, your video will go out Int'l Priority tomorrow morning at the latest.

Frank
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 5, 2004 02:17AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-04 17:28, Frank Starsini wrote:
....Werner, your video will go out Int'l Priority tomorrow morning at the latest.

Frank

[/quote]Thanx Frank, looking forward to, and thanx for the PM re that matter.
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 6, 2004 04:39PM)
Awhile back, I ordered Gazzo's books (I have not read his cup and ball book yet). I read the art of krowd keeping. A light read, with good information in it.

So, what do you get? The Art of Krowd keeping is a small pamplet, not really a book, running 31 pages. The topics covered are:

Why the street?
What is a busker?
A place to be bad
How do I get started
Gazzo's show
the circle or the doorway
What tricks should I do?
Routining
How do I pick a spot?
When should The curtain rise?
Stopping the first five
The main show
The grand Finale
Give your hat lines
Common pit falls
Brother can you spare a line?
E=mc^2
The red beaked sidewalk squabbler
Dare to be Bad!
Have Fun!
Gazzo's performance pointers
Tone of voice
Eye Contact
Stance
What are yousmilling about?
Get them to like you immediately
Picking the right volunteer
Educating the crowd
When peole leave
The zen of the crowd
Summping up
Postscript
Glossary of terms.

Anyone who has seen Gazzo on uncensored and Cellini on street performing, will get very little out of this pamphlet. This is not to say, there is no vaule in this pamphlet!

After reading it, I watch Gazzo uncensored and had a much better understanding of how Gazzo's performs and gave me much to think about. The pamphlet is an easy read, there is no fluff in it--which I like, but some topics where not fully developed, such as in Brother Can you spare a line, rather then give you a few examples, he uses this to plug his good Read between the lines--but he does point out you why you need a line for everything and this pamphlet is not him selling you his show/lines, so I do not feel cheated, but would have liked to see a few examples. Another example would be the section on routinging, which he devotes (i believe) 19 lines too, I would like to have seen that devolped more completely ie, a good rountine example and a bad rountine example.

Each topic is covered and Gazzo's points are made. I think those that buy this will find a good read and some nice pictures of Gazzo's in his younger days.

I can recommand this book, but would have perferred Gazzo's book of lines and this one. combined into one book, but that is me.

Just one man's thoughts
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 6, 2004 05:42PM)
Mr. T,
Thanks for your honest feedback. And thanks for listing all the topics covered in the book. That's quite a list.

(By the way, the book is actually about 4 or 5 pages longer; we didn't start counting pages till after the foreword and introduction.)

May I ask, are you working on the street now or planning to in the future? You mentioned that you're working on a new street act; I didn't know if that meant you were already a street performer or just getting into it.

Best regards,
Jim
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 6, 2004 06:44PM)
I did not count the forward or the intro, for the same reason, most do not number them, as they add little to the content of a book.

I enjoyed the book and tried to proved an honest review of it. I am sure there are those who may disagree with my thoughts.

Yes, I have worked the streets, as a performer, it is how I put myself though school. I have not worked the streets in a few years, as my main stay is PSI home parties. As you noted, I am working on a new street act, as I would like to go out next summer, if I can come up with something workable.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 7, 2004 02:21AM)
Forwords are for me often a very important of any book..of course it depends..but one shouldn't skip reading them.. :)
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Aug 7, 2004 12:47PM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-06 19:44, Sir T wrote:
I did not count the forward or the intro, for the same reason, most do not number them, as they add little to the content of a book.

I enjoyed the book and tried to proved an honest review of it. I am sure there are those who may disagree with my thoughts.

Yes, I have worked the streets, as a performer, it is how I put myself though school. I have not worked the streets in a few years, as my main stay is PSI home parties. As you noted, I am working on a new street act, as I would like to go out next summer, if I can come up with something workable.


[/quote]

Sometimes a key piece of information is in the foreword of a book. If you have [i]Sheherazade,[/i] be sure to read the foreword.
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 7, 2004 05:15PM)
Bill said:
Sometimes a key piece of information is in the foreword of a book. If you have Sheherazade, be sure to read the foreword.


Yes, I have Sheherazade and you are correct Bill, "sometimes," but not always. So, to set the record straight:

Gazzo's book, " The art of keeping a krowd, runs a little over 31 pages, I stand corrected."

However this does not change my feelings on the book and after reading Gazzo book on the cup and ball, I would have passed on the art of keeping a krowd, as the cup and ball has more complete information on busking. A review to follow.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 8, 2004 01:59AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-07 18:15, Sir T wrote:
....However this does not change my feelings on the book and after reading Gazzo book on the cup and ball, I would have passed on the art of keeping a krowd, as the cup and ball has more complete information on busking. A review to follow.[/quote]
How funny... :)
Actually I'm not a busker and I enjoyed reading about *the background*, the incidents, everything, happening to magicperformers..
I enjoyed every single minute of reading *The Art of Krowd Keeping*, as I f.ex. enjoyed the first part (almost half of the book) of Cellinis *The Royal Touch*..

Give me the life story of any well known/experienced magician/performer, let me hear his stories re what happend to him during his lifetime..I read it..

But, that's how different people are...

You se, I didn't/don't *need* any of the information from the mentioned Gazzo book, nevertheless I bought it and I enjoyed it tremendously..
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 8, 2004 04:29AM)
Give me the life story of any well known/experienced magician/performer, let me hear his stories re what happend to him during his lifetime..I read it..

I agree with you, but that is not what the art of keep the krowd is billed as. And the cup and ball books, has more of both kinds of background.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 8, 2004 05:29AM)
You might be correct..no offense..I simply reread both... :) because I enjoy it..

BUT, still, I wouldn't be without the info/entertainment hidden in *The Art of Krowd Keeping*..

My view to all this simply is: study as much as possible..
YES, I know there is a lot of garbage out there..
I've been in magic for -by now- almost 54 years, when counting from the early years as a *little* boy, when seeing the very first magic performance, but my experience is, *Magic* is a lifetime interest and as the late John Ramsay used to say..:

SE each magician you have a chance to se, if he's bad, your pleased with yourself, if he's good, you can learn and pick up some idea..the same goes -IMHO- for books/DVDs, tapes..

IF one truly is a magic-buff, one simply has to read/see as much as possible, the good, the bad, everything..

BUT once again, I really 100% count the mentioned Gazzo book as one of the BEST!!!

Only my opinion, but I stick to it..your opinion is accepted to, of course!

People are different, have different opinions..and that's what makes life in magic interesting and worthwhile..

That's the fun of it.. for some people involved in it..I'm just one of them..

I love a good argument, because I love to *think* about magic and that's why I am posting here, people agree or disagree..it is food for thought for me..

I love it..and it ALL makes me *thinking* more about my own impressions and feeling re magic.....

JFYI, I've meet them all in person/life -and talked with them- and I enjoyed it.

Dai Vernon (right here in CPH together with Jay Ose Aug. 29th 1964)..he was always very generous when commenting other performers work...and nope, no bragging, but I let you have what he wrote in my copy of
*The Dai Vernon Book of Magic*:

Very best regards
to an extremely
clever artist
Werner Seitz
Sincerely
Dai Vernon
Aug. 29th 1964.

Am I proud of that?
You bet I am.

All I did where a few card routines as well as my strike second deal.

His comment was, that there where so many well known cardsters in the USA, but my handling actually was better.

Bragging?

No, just memories from way back..he was MUCH to kind with all his comments..and yes I too remember Jay Ose. What a gentlemen, as was Dai.
Others I met, Albert Goshman -we took breakfast together a couple of times at diff. conventions.

Fred Kaps, meet him in private only twice, first time in Enschede/Holland 1959, can't recall the year, at a convention where I had the pleasure to be at the same table.

Tony Slydini, Bologna 1960, at a convention, was honoured to be invited - because I had impressed one of the big names in Italia with some cardwork- to a private party where he performed for magicians and Henk Vermeyden -to get closed a deal re his lecture tour to Holland..
Met him later early in the morning after breakfast at the hotel for a chat.

Why do I mention this?

Just to let you know, that I'm a real magicbuff.
I like magic, I do it (not as often as I want to) and I enjoy it..

I've been inspired by all these people and any time I would read and study more of their lifes story.
I'm not anymore after *secret* or methods.
I've enough to play with for the rest of my life, but I'm always interested in how these ppl went through their life..what happened on the road to their success and failures , aso. aso...
It's simply the interest that drives me, and I think more people should be interested in the *background* of those people that *made* it..like Don Alan, like Al Goshman, like a lot of others. :)
We all have different angles to *magic* and we all have our value and justice inside this field..the fact that we are posting here shows we all do care. :)
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 8, 2004 09:16AM)
A very well put post!
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 8, 2004 01:35PM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-07 18:15, Sir T wrote:
However this does not change my feelings on the book and after reading Gazzo book on the cup and ball, I would have passed on the art of keeping a krowd, as the cup and ball has more complete information on busking. A review to follow.


[/quote]

Sir T,

Probably to the surprise of many considering I am a co-author of the Krowd Keepers book I do not disagree with this statement.

Gazzo's new cups and balls book written with Simon is not only an excellent reference for the trick proper it is one of the best nuggets on busking I have ever read.

For someone who has some experience working the street I would say pass right by Krowd Keepers and head straight at the cups book.

The cups book isn't good, it is great!

I also agree with your comments about the uncensored tape. Unfortunately, most people who do not know what they are watching fast forward right by the thirty minute part that I and probably you find to be the meat and potatoes of the entire tape. The section where Gazzo is crowd building at the ren faire.

The only defense I will provide for Krowd Keepers is this: It was designed to be read by magicians who have some performance experience but have never worked the street. You have worked the street and much of the book probably seemed obvious to you. Jim, Gazzo, and I wanted to provide a nuts and bolts primer for those wanting to get out there and try it.

As far as lines go I agree with you, it would have been nice to include some more in the book. They were purposely left out so that they could be marketed as a separate item.

The reason for this was not commercial, it was decided to be done that way so that those who just wanted the lines did not have to pay more for the inclusion of Krowd Keepers.

Gazzo and I kicked around the idea of combining both books and Gazzo thought that his cups book would be a better place for them. In the cups book you get every line he does during the cups plus a few from other parts of the act.

The cups book also includes a ton of information on busking. A lot of it I feel might be less obvious to someone new to the street and they might miss the gold mine contained within. Much like missing the crowd building section of the uncensored tape.

The reason I say that is because I know it is the stuff I would have missed before I got out on the street and fell on my face a couple of times.

I think Krowd Keepers fills that gap quite nicely. Perhaps in the future Gazzo might combine the Lines book with Krowd Keepers and it will be a more complete text instead of the lecture note format it is now in. Krowd Keeper was written to be lecture notes and not so much a "book".

You know, now that I think of it if he decides to reprint he could combine all three books and I think that would be a book anyone would want to have. Krowd Keepers as a forward section, the cups as the center, and the lines at the end. I know I'd buy it.

Anyway, great thoughts and an honest opinion. I'm glad your overall impression of the booklet was positive. Thanks for sharing them.

Best,

Dan-
Message: Posted by: mslj (Aug 8, 2004 02:27PM)
One of the pleasures of writing the Cups book was that Gazzo's routine has such a lot to offer and thus we had the space to elaborate on points that could have been written in one line.

I attended several of Gazzo's masterclasses/workshops on the UK tour and he spent a great deal of time on vanishing a ball with a simple pass. He could have just shown the class what to do but for the full emphasis he spoke about timing, hand position, speed and so on. Similarly with the cups book Gazzo and I were able to expand and explore on as many points as we liked and in as much detail as we liked.

With Krowd Keeper not only would that have been difficult but was beyond the remit of the book (by the way when does a leaflet become a book and why?).

Gazzo and I spoke at length about not only combining all three of his books in hardback but also adding to them with a Masterclass with regards to his whole routine. The result would be indepth discussions on working with a TT, floating card/card to mouth, rope work, his routining and so on.

Running at about 250 pages, hardbound, still with a reasonable price.

Finally, I've got to say I'm chuffed with the feedback to the cups book, it's a shame my marriage broke apart whhile writing it - Gazzo and his *** deadline! (Tis a joke - just!)

Simon
Message: Posted by: Jim Wilder (Aug 8, 2004 03:22PM)
One element about both of these books that I particularly enjoy is that they effectively communicate on a personal level. There in a line in the introduction of the Cups and Balls book about wanting to relate information in the same manner as it would be related over a cup of coffee and a couple of hours to kill. I feel both books achieved this masterfully.

Did I find any earth-shattering information? No. I still recommend both books to every worker. Even if these books are "preaching to the choir" as I am sure they are for many, it is still nice to see insight from others- even if it is exactly what you already know. There were several times when reading both books where I could genuinely relate to topics at hand such as working with kids, timing, copying, and many others.

Also, I think a hard back edition containing all three books would please just about any audience for one reason or another.
Message: Posted by: robsigns (Aug 8, 2004 03:35PM)
I agree - the books are great. It only took them a few days to get over from England. I'm still looking for the "lines" book. Does anyone know where that one can be had?
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 9, 2004 03:12AM)
I must disagree. I believe that Krowd Keepers has stuff in it that is not in Cellini's dvd on street performing and while it may be in Gazzo's uncensored tape how are you gonna know what you're seeing unless you know what you're seeing or what to look for? That's the effect that happens when people hearing a lanuage that isn't their first language--for instance a Spanish speaker hearing English--they hear the letter "V" as a letter "B" because they don't have a "V" sound in their language. So they just don't hear the sound. Same thing if you're watching Gazzo's tape. Unless you know what to look for, you won't just get it.
Examples from Krowd Keepers: the section on routining: these 19 lines (if that's how long it is) made a huge difference in my effectiveness as a street performer. That section tells you how to routine your show in terms of handling and maintaining and building your crowd correctly right from the start. That is the mandate of the book. To address things in terms of crowd control. It would be out of place and beyond the scope of the book to discuss "good" or "bad" routines. (However, Gazzo's show and his routines are spelled out earlier in the book.)
Another aspect that has helped me improve my show (bringing a better show and more smiling faces to my audience and more $ to me) are Gazzo's performance pointers. I don't think that information is anywhere else to be found except from Gazzo himself. That stuff helped me so much I can't say. Eye contact, smiling, etc. To me, detailed notes on how to effectively perform is just as important if not more so than detailed notes on sleights, etc.

I would also say, that having those pointers also helped me better be "me" on the street, finding my own way of implimenting those strong performing guildlines. Watching Gazzo on tape is rather intoxicating and can imprint you with his style at first (I know it did me!).

So I have to disagree that the info in there is redundant. While some of is the basics, there is also a lot of new stuff. There is gold in those pages. Gazzo gold.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 9, 2004 03:47AM)
JamesinLA:

I second your opinion..
Apart from *The Art of Krowd Keeping* is pure entertainment for each and everybody interested in the finer points of entertaining, some of the tips in there are pure gold...
BUT, it is hard to visualize the impact a performer like Gazzo does make on any audience..
Somehow I think, that kind of wit and humour ONLY can originate from an *englishmen* .. :) :)

Frank Starsini:

I owe you!
The *Uncensored* arrived today and I had the ball of my lifetime to have a quick few..it will take hours of repeat watching to get really through it.
That video is a MUST for anybody interested in entertainment..

To hell with the magic, it is secondary and just a red thread to the final goal..to entertain ppl and so get the CASH!!!
Gazzo is one of the greatest ENTERTAINERs I've ever seen working the street..

The only one I can imagine drawing even larger crowds and getting more money is *Steve&Jack*... :) (non magic act normally)

Magicwise, my vote re pure and entertaining magic still is on Cellini, BUT re entertainment Gazzo can't be beaten..

But who am I to *vote*...just make your own judgement by seen all performers -on the street- that you are able to, many of them are worth watching!

The *Uncensored* is a must..it is pure joy and entertainment, no matter how much magic you've seen earlier in your life!

Get that video as long as it is available..

I think also the *School of Scoundrels* ..Whit Haydn and Chef Anton have to have my recognition for bringing to us that kind of stuff..we, on this site of the atlantic enjoy it and seeing an englishmen conquer the US is a joy to watch :)..
Magicwise I only recall Bob Read having the same spirit of a busker when doing his crazy C&B, as well as all the other busker-stuff by use of his bowlerhat, his bottle production, his 100& bill glass through the table..whatever he does....

The buskers have earned every single dollar they ever made by their great work!

One more thing re the Gazzo *Uncensored*..I simply have to state this..
I NEVER had that much fun in seeing and hearing a REAL performer working, since Johnny Paul!!!
And that is about as good as they can come..
Johnny Paul was the greatest entertainer with magic I ever saw, he brought tears of fun to my eyes..
Gazzo does likewise..there is -in my book- no better compliment !

( There was only one other guy..and that was David Williamson, at a Swedish convention years back ...simply pure joy to watch...)

@&%$ ...that guy Gazzo doesn't even need *magic* to entertain!
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Aug 9, 2004 11:13AM)
Interesting you put Johnny Paul and Gazzo in the same context... (and David Williamson). I would add Bob Read, and there you have it. The best.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 9, 2004 11:15AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-09 12:13, Pete Biro wrote:
I would add Bob Read, and there you have it. The best.
[/quote]I DID... :) in another thread :) :)
Message: Posted by: mslj (Aug 9, 2004 01:52PM)
The Read Between the Lines book will be out in about a month. Just putting the finishing touches to the edits.

Simon
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 10, 2004 02:45AM)
James in LA,

I agree there is some good information in the book, but I think the co-author agrees with my thoughts on the book:

[quote]Sir T,

Probably to the surprise of many considering I am a co-author of the Krowd Keepers book I do not disagree with this statement.

Gazzo's new cups and balls book written with Simon is not only an excellent reference for the trick proper it is one of the best nuggets on busking I have ever read.

For someone who has some experience working the street I would say pass right by Krowd Keepers and head straight at the cups book.
[/quote]

The cup and ball book is by far more in depth, then keeping a krowd, but that is me.

I would have to agree with statements already made, get Gazzo uncensored!!!! It is a must have!!! I agree % with:

I also agree with your comments about the uncensored tape. Unfortunately, most people who do not know what they are watching fast forward right by the thirty minute part that I and probably you find to be the meat and potatoes of the entire tape. The section where Gazzo is crowd building at the ren faire

Anyway, I agree we will just have to disagree about the book.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 10, 2004 03:43AM)
Sure, T, we will disagree about the book. But I'm not saying, as you said, that people who fast forward past a certain part of the uncensored tape will not get it because of that. No, what I said was that you can watch the whole thing. You can watch it more than once. You are still not going to know what you are seeing at many levels, you aren't going to know how the Gaz is doing on many levels, unless one of two conditions are true:

1) You read his book or study some other work that deals with the same subject of crowd control on the street on a par with Gazzo's insights. Only then will someone know what to look for, per my example of language. (See my above post for that approbiate analogy.) Or...

2) You are a performer with the experience and talent on a par with Gazzo himself.

I am not going to accentuate any disagreements I have with others on this board whose opinions I hold in the highest esteem, and most of whom have more experience than me on the street. However, from all my experience and understanding, I must believe what I believe.

While other people's opinions are certainly to be weighted, they can't be the final arbitors of my opinion.

Good luck and take care,

Jim

PS: I am a co-author of the book and I agree with me. (wink)
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 10, 2004 04:25AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-10 04:43, JamesinLA wrote:
PS: I am a co-author of the book and I agree with me. (wink)
[/quote]I'm NOT a co-author and I still agree.. :)
Why?, because I love magic and any information coming from somebody that *made* it..somebody with experience who made his living doing the stuff he talks about..

I also read and enjoy what *theoretical* participaters have to say..they all have a place and often a valuable opinion, but still, ppl who earned their living from that stuff and are letting *us* taking part in their opinions and experiences are the ones that we have to study more close..they know what they are talking about..otherwise they wouldn't have survived in this game..

To work the street is the hardest job one can get and if one succeds there, I don't doubt -but I still judge and think about- what they have to say.. :)
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 10, 2004 05:00AM)
PSS: I have to say, though, I think it's great we have a real disagreement. It was really getting a little to agreeable around here. That's what makes a market as they say.

But I will add one more thought: Someone can watch the Gazzo tape till they go blind, you can read Krowd Keepers and the Cups and Balls book till the pages are worn, you can even watch Gazzo in the flesh and feel what it feels like to be carried away by him--and you are still--on some deep level, not going to see "it." Whatever the heck it is that gets him all that cash. You are going to ask your and we're going to ask each other, "How the %#@*? does he do it!"

Now tell me, everyone, haven't you ever said that to yourself about him and said it to others? "How the %#@*? does he do it?"
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Aug 10, 2004 05:27AM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-10 06:00, JamesinLA wrote:
Now tell me, everyone, haven't you ever said that to yourself about him and said it to others? "How the %#@*? does he do it?"
[/quote]
No...I think I know.. :)
It's engaging himself with his audience, letting them (and himself) have a lot of fun and always *be prepared*..with lines, no matter how and by whom he is interupted.

As most might know, an interuption migth very well add positive to the act, when one is able to respond the right way..and Gazzo is..
So -again- it is all about pure entertainmanet..as you know, Gazzo doesn't *need* to do any magic - he is an entertainer also without magic-, that's why he is so good!
He could entertain without using it, magic is just a red thread through his act and of course his finale tops all this..

Soo, I'm NOT in doubt why and how he succeds..others shouldn't either.. :)
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 10, 2004 08:19AM)
Jim,

You hit the nail on the head. This is what I was trying to say but obviously missed the mark.

If you do not know what you are looking at you will never see it. Krowd Keepers is designed to help those who have not worked the streets avoid some of the obvious pitfalls and perhaps help them use other materials they already have more efficiently.

Every time I post about that part of the uncensored video somebody replies with "How did you know I fast forwarded past that?"

Krowd Keepers can help you understand the subtleties of this thing we do.

Best,

Dan-

[quote]
On 2004-08-10 04:43, JamesinLA wrote:
Sure, T, we will disagree about the book. But I'm not saying, as you said, that people who fast forward past a certain part of the uncensored tape will not get it because of that. No, what I said was that you can watch the whole thing. You can watch it more than once. You are still not going to know what you are seeing at many levels, you aren't going to know how the Gaz is doing on many levels, unless one of two conditions are true:

1) You read his book or study some other work that deals with the same subject of crowd control on the street on a par with Gazzo's insights. Only then will someone know what to look for, per my example of language. (See my above post for that approbiate analogy.) Or...

2) You are a performer with the experience and talent on a par with Gazzo himself.

I am not going to accentuate any disagreements I have with others on this board whose opinions I hold in the highest esteem, and most of whom have more experience than me on the street. However, from all my experience and understanding, I must believe what I believe.

While other people's opinions are certainly to be weighted, they can't be the final arbitors of my opinion.

Good luck and take care,

Jim

PS: I am a co-author of the book and I agree with me. (wink)
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 11, 2004 02:58AM)
Okay, Dan, well said. Thanks to Mr. T and everyone for such a lively discussion.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 11, 2004 08:24PM)
Street cups and ball by Gazzo: A review of sorts.

For many of us, we own Gazzo on the cup and balls, Gazzo uncensored, and Gazzo on the cup and balls a booklet, so is there any need for yet another Gazzo book? Is there a Danger, that soon there will be Gazzo clones on every street, doing the Gazzo routine?

I recently bought the latest Gazzo books, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Each book offers something to the reader, depending on one's level of experience you may gain a lot or just a little, but each bit of information will save you much time and wasted effort.

Gazzo's street cups and balls, covers the following topics:

Forward by Bob Read: A lasting memory
Introduction
The Streets
Street stories:Teh luck of the streets
In the beginning
Street stories:No Drinking allowed
To copy or Not to copy
Street stories:Wanna closer look?
Enviroment
Street stories:Animal farm
Timing
Appearance
Length of show
Hecklers
street stories:When it goes wrong
Hats_A fair Exchange
Simplicity
Lines
Props
The moves
The routine
Conclusion"You'll go far kid"

The book runs 67 pages of pure entertainment and wisdom. It is my belief, this book takes off where Keeping a Krowd left off or left out information (although Keeping a Krowd is still a worthwhile read).

The information in this book is by far worth more then you will pay. The text is clear, the stories are real and the book provides you with Gazzo's whole routine line for line, so you can stop pausing the VCR and trying to write down everything he says!! LOL

My only complaint with this book, is I myself do not care for drawings, but prefer photographs. This of course would have added to the cost of the book, a cost I would have borne without pause.

This book is the real deal, get it while you can, if you want to learn a cup and ball routine that is proven to be effective, here it is.

When I started this review, I asked, "Is there any need for yet another Gazzo book?

To answer this question, I truly believe there is! This book goes beyond his lecture notes, add much to his Tapes, and will give one a greater understanding of what they are seeing and hopefully some food for thought.


Is there a danger, that soon there will be Gazzo clones on every street, doing the Gazzo routine?

There is always a danger of clones in the beginning, but I feel that as performers get comfortable with the routine and the need to stand out from others, each will add something to the routine and make it their own and maybe even improve upon Gazzo's routine (is that possible??).

Anyway, a good read and worth owning if you have any interested in learning the cup and balls and performing them on the streets.
Message: Posted by: Rupert Bair (Aug 24, 2004 06:50AM)
I've Just gotten Krowd Keeping. Absolutley fantastic!
Matt
Message: Posted by: cstreet_1986 (Aug 24, 2004 11:43AM)
Does anyone know where I can get hold of Read Between The One Lines, or if you have one to sell to me, please contact me at cstreet2468@aol.com or leave a post here. Thanks,

Chris
Message: Posted by: Rupert Bair (Aug 24, 2004 12:31PM)
Where are you from?
Message: Posted by: cstreet_1986 (Aug 24, 2004 01:26PM)
I'm from Wales, UK. If you are looking to sell, feel free to e-mail me at cstreet_1986@hotmail.com with your price.

Thanks,

Chris
Message: Posted by: mslj (Aug 24, 2004 04:41PM)
Chris

The Read Between the Lines book was available during the Gazzo tour of the UK. In was printed in that form for the tour.

I am presently working on the revised and updated edition which hopefully will be out in a couple of months. I'll keep you informed.

Simon
Message: Posted by: Rupert Bair (Aug 24, 2004 05:02PM)
I've emailed you.
Simon how come you're working on a revised one not Gazzo?
Matt
Message: Posted by: mslj (Aug 24, 2004 06:32PM)
I'm working on Gazzo as well, will be finished any day now!
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 24, 2004 07:11PM)
[quote]
On 2004-08-06 17:39, Sir T wrote:
So, what do you get? The Art of Krowd keeping is a small pamplet, not really a book, running 31 pages. The topics covered are:
[/quote]
Hi T
I don’t understand much of what you said but most of all the above. You immediately follow this statement, with the heading each of the 20+ Chapters. If this is a small pamphlet well they must be very big around where your at. To add to that pamphlets don’t come with chapters as you out laid them.
In regards to what you can get out of "The Art Of Krowd Keeping" A lot more than you can get out of a pamphlet. There are not many books that come in at such good value as this one. The Royal Touch which is a great book cost me $120. and only a small part of it have I applied. For the fraction of the price, "The Art of Krowd Keeping" I have applied all of what I have read, simply because it is easy to read. I have been perfoming streets now for 15 years, one thing I have learnt is keep it simple.
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 24, 2004 08:13PM)
Hey Mario, what I wrote is one man's thoughts on The Art of keeping the Crowd. Below you will find the terms as defined

pam·phlet

A short essay or treatise, usually on a current topic, published without a binding.

The Art of keeping a Krowd is not bound, it is stapled, those I refer to it as a Pamhlet and it is a short Treatise running 31 pages. It is not ment as an insult, it was me offering a detailed reveiw of the material.

Chapter:
One of the main divisions of a relatively lengthy piece of writing, such as a book, that is usually numbered or titled.

I never refer to the topics covered as chapters because, they do not fit the definition of a chapter IMHO, offering up a few paragrarhs on a topic is not a chapter. For Example:

What tricks should I do? 5 paragraphs or 29 lines (not sentences)

Rountining : 3 paragraphs or 20 lines (n/s)

Brother can you spare a line: 2 paragraphs and a plug for another book or 12 lines (n/s)

I could go on, but I think my point is made on why, I do not refer to them as chapters.

You say in your post:

In regards to what you can get out of "The Art Of Krowd Keeping" A lot more than you can get out of a pamphlet. There are not many books that come in at such good value as this one. The Royal Touch which is a great book cost me $120. and only a small part of it have I applied. For the fraction of the price, "

By all means Please be specific, that is a pretty broad generalization. What did you get out of and use from, "The Art of Krowd Keeping, " THAT was not in The Royal Touch?

I mention in my post on this book:

Each topic is covered and Gazzo's points are made. I think those that buy this will find a good read and some nice pictures of Gazzo's in his younger days.

I can recommand this book......

I totally agree with what you said:

I have applied all of what I have read, simply because it is easy to read. I have been perfoming streets now for 15 years, one thing I have learnt is keep it simple.

I would also like to point out That the co_author agrees with much of what I wrote, so I am not sure what your point of disagreement is?

Respectfully,

ME
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 24, 2004 09:35PM)
Sir T,
That's the second time you've said the author agrees with you. Who cares if an author agrees with you? That is a hollow arguement. Make your own points.

I won't even get into the binding of "Krowd Keepers," which is ridiculous. It's not stapeled in one corner like a school paper. It is bound. Yes, with staples, but nicely bound nontheless.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 24, 2004 09:55PM)
James in LA it would appear you are unable to read the words: "CO-Author" as noted on the inside cover of the art of keeping the krowd:

"Written by Danny Hustle with James E Wells"

Please refer to what Danny Hustle posted:
[quote]
Quote:
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On 2004-08-07 18:15, Sir T wrote:
However this does not change my feelings on the book and after reading Gazzo book on the cup and ball, I would have passed on the art of keeping a krowd, as the cup and ball has more complete information on busking. A review to follow.




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Sir T,

Probably to the surprise of many considering I am a co-author of the Krowd Keepers book I do not disagree with this statement.

Gazzo's new cups and balls book written with Simon is not only an excellent reference for the trick proper it is one of the best nuggets on busking I have ever read.

For someone who has some experience working the street I would say pass right by Krowd Keepers and head straight at the cups book.

The cups book isn't good, it is great!

I also agree with your comments about the uncensored tape. Unfortunately, most people who do not know what they are watching fast forward right by the thirty minute part that I and probably you find to be the meat and potatoes of the entire tape. The section where Gazzo is crowd building at the ren faire.

The only defense I will provide for Krowd Keepers is this: It was designed to be read by magicians who have some performance experience but have never worked the street. You have worked the street and much of the book probably seemed obvious to you. Jim, Gazzo, and I wanted to provide a nuts and bolts primer for those wanting to get out there and try it.

As far as lines go I agree with you, it would have been nice to include some more in the book. They were purposely left out so that they could be marketed as a separate item.

The reason for this was not commercial, it was decided to be done that way so that those who just wanted the lines did not have to pay more for the inclusion of Krowd Keepers.

Gazzo and I kicked around the idea of combining both books and Gazzo thought that his cups book would be a better place for them. In the cups book you get every line he does during the cups plus a few from other parts of the act.

The cups book also includes a ton of information on busking. A lot of it I feel might be less obvious to someone new to the street and they might miss the gold mine contained within. Much like missing the crowd building section of the uncensored tape.

The reason I say that is because I know it is the stuff I would have missed before I got out on the street and fell on my face a couple of times.

I think Krowd Keepers fills that gap quite nicely. Perhaps in the future Gazzo might combine the Lines book with Krowd Keepers and it will be a more complete text instead of the lecture note format it is now in. Krowd Keeper was written to be lecture notes and not so much a "book".

You know, now that I think of it if he decides to reprint he could combine all three books and I think that would be a book anyone would want to have. Krowd Keepers as a forward section, the cups as the center, and the lines at the end. I know I'd buy it.

Anyway, great thoughts and an honest opinion. I'm glad your overall impression of the booklet was positive. Thanks for sharing them.

Best,

Dan-
[/quote]
I have made my points James! I have posted a review and defined my terms for the sake of being clear. The fact that the author agrees with much of what I wrote is not a hollow argument, it only shows my points are valid and that I put honest thought in my own review and post on this subject.

James you point out:

"I won't even get into the binding of "Krowd Keepers," which is ridiculous."

That is fair, but then no one can say, I am not being honest when I call it a pamhlet:

pam·phlet

A short essay or treatise, usually on a current topic, published "without a binding"

My point is made not only by my words, but by your own words, you did not bind it, which is your right.

My points are clear it is others who wish to debate terms.

Respectfully,

Me

PS Overall I do recommand this book, I only pointed out areas, I felt were lacking. Others disagree, which is fine. I think it is healthy good debate.
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 25, 2004 12:35AM)
Yes, T, you have made your points. I am happy to have your opinion. The last thing I want is everyone agree with everyone in the land of the happy people.

Once again, however, I believe it's lame to say "I'm right because someone agrees with me." I think your opinions and your logic should stand on their own. Not because others agree with you or not.

I have no idea by what you mean "You did not bind it." And I have no interest in discussing whether something is bound with staples, or spiral bound, or glued with a hand-tooled leather cover. Who cares.

I'm glad you recommend it overall.

Jim
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 25, 2004 05:49AM)
(Sir T wrote:
The Art of keeping a Krowd is not bound, it is stapled, those I refer to it as a Pamphlet and it is a short Treatise running 31 pages. It is not meant as an insult, it was me offering a detailed review of the material)

Mr T
Speaking to my Friend Mr Book-Binder for 45 years, tells me you are incorrect. Books can be and are bound by staple, this is understood amongst Book-Binders and by publishers, regardless to our own oppion.

(Sir T wrote:
By all means Please be specific, that is a pretty broad generalization. What did you get out of and use from, "The Art of Krowd Keeping, " THAT was not in The Royal Touch?)

Thank you for helping me to define my point.
"The Royal Touch" I did not say it was not in there, did I? Rather I found it comprehensive to the point where things got clouded. "The Art of Krowd Keeping" is a book you can apply straight away. It is only after reading "The Art of Krowd Keeping" that I finally was able to understand more of "The Royal Touch"

(Sir T wrote:
I never refer to the topics covered as chapters because, they do not fit the definition of a chapter IMHO, offering up a few paragraphs on a topic is not a chapter.)

I never said you referred to them as chapters, I referred to them as chapters. As for the statement(not sentences) Well maybe you got a missprint because my copy has sentences through out the book.

To be frank Mr T your one man thoughts, as you put it come across as angry. Little statements like "small pamphlet" just serves to be-little this book. If this was a pamphlet it is a BIG ONE. I can not help but to think this is personal to you. I glad to see you recommended this book but it seems to come through gritted teeth.
One man's thoughts
Mario
P.S This may not be your intention, I am just saying the way you come across to me.
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 25, 2004 09:31AM)
Mario Morris said:
[quote]
Speaking to my friend Mr Book-Binder for 45 years, tells me you are incorrect. Books can be and are bound by staple, this is understood amongst Book-Binders and by publishers, regardless to our own oppion.
[/quote]

This is not what I was told nor was it my understanding, which as I point out is why, I referred to this in the manner in which I did. If I am incorrect, I now stand corrected. It was not meant as an insult, if one goes by the definitions, I was using with my understanding of the words as given.
[quote]
To be frank Mr T your one man thoughts, as you put it come across as angry. Little statements like "small pamphlet" just serves to belittle this book. If this was a pamphlet it is a BIG ONE. I can not help but to think this is personal to you. I glad to see you recommended this book but it seems to come through gritted teeth. One man's thoughts
[/quote]
This is not my intention, I wrote what I felt and still feel is an honest review, I pointed out positive items as well as areas that I felt were lacking. I do not know the authors in any way shape or form, I have no axe to grind.
[quote]
As Danny Hustle points out in his comments: great thoughts and an honest opinion. I'm glad your overall impression of the booklet was positive. Thanks for sharing them.
[/quote]
I am not sure, how I come off sound angry? I have really tried to give an unbiased review, presented examples to show where I was coming from and my thought process on book vs Pamphlet, chapters vs. topics.

(on the subject of lines vs sentences, I just counted the total lines, giving credit for a line even if that line only had one word in it, so the line total is different than the sentence total)

No, I do not recommended this book through gritted teeth. I said up front in my first posting:

A light read, with good information in it.

Each topic is covered and Gazzo's points are made. I think those who buy this will find a good read and some nice pictures of Gazzo in his younger days.

I can recommend this book, but would have preferred Gazzo's book of lines and this one combined into one book, but that is me.

I hope that this clears things up to some degree.

Respectfully,

Me
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 25, 2004 11:18AM)
Mr T
Yes it does, to some degree, other than one point is not clear to me in your last statement.
Do you still consider "The art of Krowd Keeping" as a small pamphlet a big pamphlet or a book?
With Thanks
Mario
Message: Posted by: Rupert Bair (Aug 25, 2004 05:24PM)
My mind is going crazy reading all that. It's like a movie that kees on going back in time!
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 25, 2004 05:55PM)
Matt you are a funny man, and I like your web-site.
Mario
Message: Posted by: JamesinLA (Aug 25, 2004 11:04PM)
One thing to keep in mind about refining anything to its most concise level--be it writing or an magic act for that matter--is that it is harder to arrive at simplicity and brevity than to drone on and on. The famous quote from Voltaire on this matter puts it well. At the end of a letter of Voltaire's, he wrote, "Please excuse the length of this letter but I hadn't the time to write a shorter one."

Jim
Message: Posted by: BroDavid (Aug 26, 2004 08:15AM)
Well said James!

BroDavid
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 26, 2004 11:47AM)
Well shut-up then.
Mario
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 26, 2004 07:14PM)
Mario Morris Ask's

Do you still consider "The art of Krowd Keeping" as a small pamphlet a big pamphlet or a book?

I contacted Random House publishing: http://www.randomhouse.com

My email is below:
To Whom It May Concern;

I am currently in a debate, over how book companies classify books, pamphlets and magazines.

Recently I purchased a book/pamphlet, it runs 31 pages and has two staples holding it together. I refer to this as a pamphlets and not a book, which is causing a bit of an uproar, in a review I recently wrote.

Can you advise me as to what constitutes a book vs. a Pamphlet?

I defined a pamphlet from dictionary.com:

A short essay or treatise, usually on a current topic, published without a binding.

The book in question is titled: The Art of Krowd Keeping by Gazzo.

Thank You for any light you can shed on this issue.

Respectfully,


Random House reply:

If it is a "book" there will be an ISBN, (International Standard Book Number) on the copyright page in the front of the book. The ISBN will also appear on the back of the book above the bar code.

I could not located an ISBN for "The art of Krowd Keeping."

This is my last post on this subject.

Respectfully,

ME
Message: Posted by: cstreet_1986 (Aug 26, 2004 07:30PM)
Sir T,

I have just read your found definition of a pamphlet. Also, I have to disagree (along with anyone else) that "The Art of Krowd Keeping" is not a pamphlet.

People do not buy 'comic pamhplets', but 'comic books', and yet these would be considered pamhplets by your definition.

This definition can be found in many dictionaries to be correct, but also we should look at a definition of a book:

"Something regarded as a source of knowledge or understanding" (taken from http://www.yourdictionary.com)

Apart from the actual defining of the term, this book contains information that can be used practically, costs money and isn't thrown in the bin when someone hands it to you in the street.

This book should be respected as a book, disregarding any definition or technicality you can find, simply out of sheer courtesy.

Chris

Posted: Aug 26, 2004 8:37pm
---------------------------------------------------
I hang my head in shame when reading my above post...

I just realised that I printed the first line incorrectly. Please allow me to try again:

'I have just read your found definition of a pamphlet. Also, I have to disagree (along with anyone else) that "The Art of Krowd Keeping" is a pamphlet"...

Sorry for the confusion (damn, I'm starting to confuse myself). I hope Sir T will read the post and understand that people are annoyed here because they have more respect for the people who wrote this book and respect for the book itself than to call it a 'pamphlet', even though definition defies Krowd Keeping to be called a book.

Chris
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 26, 2004 07:43PM)
I am really sorry for posting a review and starting this all off, it was not nor is it my goal to insult those that worked on the art of keep a krowd. As I have mentioned there is some good information in The art of keeping a krowd.

I concede I should have choosen a better word then Pamphlet, as this term is very misleading! It is to my shame to have even started this "P-Contest."

I repestfully apologise for calling The Art of keeping a Krowd a Pamphlet.

This is now my last post on this subject.
Message: Posted by: Mario Morris (Aug 27, 2004 05:27AM)
Mr T and all concerned
Two cannibals eating a clown.
One says to the other:
"Does that taste funny to you?"
With great respect,
Mario
Jim, just in case you did not realise "shut-up" was a joke :)
Message: Posted by: Mark Rough (Aug 27, 2004 05:43AM)
Can we all agree that Gazzo, James, and Danny have put together some great "reading material" then?

Mark
Message: Posted by: swatchel-omi (Aug 27, 2004 06:23AM)
[quote]
Random House reply:

If it is a "book" there will be an ISBN, (International Standard Book Number) on the copyright page in the front of the book. The ISBN will also appear on the back of the book above the bar code.

[/quote]

My nice leather bound Bible does't have a ISBN number. I guess it's not really a book either. I should call it "The Good Treatise" or the Good Phamphlet".

I just happenned to notice that my copy of The Magic of Alan Wakeling (hardbound) doesn't have an ISBN number either. And on the copywrite page it say, "No part of this "book" may be reproduced ... "

Liars !

:lol: about this whole discussion.

Joe
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Aug 28, 2004 10:11PM)
WOW!

I am red faced laughing at this thread! Guys CALM DOWN! Find the sleepy time tea and take a deep breath, all of you, and yes even you!

Let me see if I can break this down...

Sir T. From reading your review I gathered that you like the Krowd Keepers book. You think it is a condensed, easy to read, primer for guys who want to work the street.

You also think that if you are an experienced busker such as yourself (15 years! Yes, that counts as pretty *** experienced I'd say) a lot of the book will be very obvious but for the price still not a bad read and worth having.

BUT, A MUCH better value for a guy as experienced as yourself is the cups book. Why? Because you get Gazzo's whole routine, great ADVANCED busker advice from the guy who is the best, AND LINES! One line you can use is worth 10 times the price of the cups book.

I agree with all of that.

I think that people are losing site of the fact that you liked BOTH books it's just that for your buck the cups book was a much better value.

Is that about right or am I way off base here?

And again, thanks for the kind words.

Best,

Dan-

P.S. When I was asked to help write these LECTURE NOTES they were called that and not a book. Not that it matters I guess, but if a cat has kittens in the oven it doesn't make them biscuits. :)
Message: Posted by: Danny Hustle (Sep 28, 2011 10:37PM)
Okay, seven years have past when are Simon and Gazzo going to get together and combine the lines, the cups, and Krowd keepers into one hard backed book? With on-line publishing the way it is in this day and age I think it would be a snap to put together and a great value for guys looking for all of the information in one package...besides, it would just be kinda cool. :)

Best,

Dan-

P.S. Put on Leno and check out the crazy cowboy! :)

[quote]
On 2004-07-21 18:41, mslj wrote:
I haven't paid a visit to the Café for a while and I'm really pleased at the reviews of the Cups and Balls book.

Gazzo and I spent a lot of time talking about the format for the book and although we discussed hardback we were aware that the first exposure of the book would be the UK lecture tour. The books in their present format, would we felt, sell better than if they were in hardback. However, I do feel that the Cups book would be better suited to hardback and don't dismiss that possibility for the future.

Gazzo has some great ideas on how it could be expanded and thus it is a project on file for the future.

I was really excited at the material that Gazzo offered for the cups book and feel the end result was worth the work that we put into it. So once again many thanks for your kind words.

As an aside I'm working on a DVD of Gazzo's lecture and the material is great. A whole hour of lecture/performance of his street show, plus jokes and stories and sections on Gazzo's philosophy of magic. We are also putting an Gazzo's story of his start in magic, his experience working for the Monte mobs in London and his journey in the States to meet Walter Scott. The whole thing will be over two hours in length and should be available some time in late September/early October.

Cheers

Simon
[/quote]
Message: Posted by: Sideshow Rod (Jul 1, 2020 09:09PM)
The cups and balls dvd and book I believe is available from Saturn Magic.co.uk
I have the both as they are sold as a pack. Very good, lots of good knowledge and tips.
Kinda want to read Krowd keepers now!!
Enjoy...
SSR
Message: Posted by: Sideshow Rod (Jul 2, 2020 06:13AM)
Anyone know where to get either READ BETWEEN THE LINES or THE ART OF KROWD KEEPING in the UK?
Anyone have a second hand copy they want to sell??
Cheers
SSR