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Topic: 7 Keys to baldpate...
Message: Posted by: Devils Advocaat (Aug 4, 2002 10:41AM)
Hi All,

Just seen this on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1755740527

In case the above doesn't work, it's a trick called PARAMOUNT LOCK. Effect works with ANY type of lock (apparently). Where can I get one? Anyone got one?

Thanks,

Frank. :bunny2:
Message: Posted by: Devils Advocaat (Aug 4, 2002 02:15PM)
Does *nobody* know what this thing is???????
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Aug 4, 2002 02:26PM)
I haven't heard specifically about this one, but I know a little about locks and have my own version that I made.

Let's do some reasoning here:

If it can be done with *any* lock, why does the package include the lock itself?

My guess is the "principle" works with any lock, BUT not without some(perhaps a LOT)modification.

There are several ways this can be done, and I'm relatively sure you can find other locks cheaper.

If you want to do this yourself, and know somewhere that you can get multiple keys made you can save yourself some money.

Of course, you're on your own to build your own routine this way, but you should be doing that anyway, right? :idea:

David
Message: Posted by: jecar (Aug 4, 2002 02:29PM)
I must admit that I've been called a "Lock Nut" :rotf: but I have not seen this one advertised. It appears that it is NOT a gimmicked lock and that a switch is involved, since the same effect can be made on door lock, etc.

If you find out anything else about it, please keep us posted.

The Lock Nut
..
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Aug 4, 2002 04:27PM)
One of the greatest ungimmicked lock effects of that sort is found in "Stunners" and was devised by Lee Earle and Larry Becker. Well worth studying.
PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 4, 2002 09:08PM)
Am I missing something here, but doesn't this sound like a rework of Max's key to the future?

I will have to relook at it.

Kevin :kitty:
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Aug 4, 2002 10:45PM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-04 22:08, Sir T wrote:
Am I missing something here, but doesn't this sound like a rework of Max's key to the future?

I will have to relook at it.

Kevin :kitty:
[/quote]

Or...is Key to future a rework of something even older? The "Seven Keys" concept has been around for many years. I guess we won't know for sure unless someone buys each of them and learns the differences (or similarities) for himself.

I'm still of the opinion that the one being offered is a gimmicked lock. As they imply, the gimmicking "principle" can probably be applied to any lock (by someone adept at these things) I've rekeyed my own house locks before. It's not that difficult to get inside them to do the "dirty work" if that's what it takes.
:devilish:

David
Message: Posted by: Vision (Aug 5, 2002 02:09AM)
I'd guess it's most likely a gimmicked lock. Though one other thing struck me, they talk about five keys all through the description, while six keys are displayed on the picture. Keyswitch?

//Daniel Young
Message: Posted by: Devils Advocaat (Aug 5, 2002 03:49AM)
...'locks' like none of us are any the wiser! :rotf:

Jecar says...'It appears that it is NOT a gimmicked lock and that a switch is involved, since the same effect can be made on door lock, etc.'

A physical switch or a light switch?
sorry, sleight switch?

Frank.

:light:
Message: Posted by: jecar (Aug 5, 2002 08:36AM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-05 03:09, Vision wrote:
I'd guess it's most likely a gimmicked lock. Though one other thing struck me, they talk about five keys all through the description, while six keys are displayed on the picture. Keyswitch?

//Daniel Young
[/quote]

"Keyswitch?" Yep...and not a gimmicked lock, at least, that's my guess..and only a guess. In my opinion, this would be the only way the claim that you can do the same thing with any door lock, would be feasible. Of course, I've been fooled many times. ;-))

Whether it's good, or not, is another question. *IF* it involves a switch....and if the method of switching is a good one, I'd think the trick would be a good one too....just as some other non-gimmicked lock effects are. Paul Alberstat pointed to 'Stunners' for a good non-gimmicked lock trick. Mark Strivings has published a good one, along with Richard Mark. And Barrie Richardson has a good one in his book 'Theater of the Mind', in which he tells who the premise of this trick originated from.

The part of the description that leads me to believe that it is a switch, is the part that says you can do it on a business door. Not many businesses are gonna sit by and let someone gimmick their door locks and it would take a locksmith to do it anyway, not a purchaser of a magic trick.

Jerry
..
Message: Posted by: Sir T (Aug 6, 2002 03:10PM)
I had a few minutes today and rewatched Keys to the future. I stand corrected, as it reads;

Key to the Future: A variation on the classic "Seven Keys to Baldpate", this effect uses an ungimmicked padlock and several keys, only one of which will open the padlock. The spectators psychic abilities are tested as she is challenged to intuitively pick the correct key. Whether she succeeds or not, the performer proves he knew the outcome in advance!

Hope that is of some help on this topic.

Kevin :kitty:
Message: Posted by: luvtinayothers (Aug 6, 2002 03:51PM)
Right after the text mentioning that the
"Paramount Principle" can work on any lock
is this fine print:

(Please note the item for auction is the Paramount Lock - Padlock Version. Email for details on other versions available.)
Message: Posted by: pwagorn (Aug 6, 2002 04:31PM)
my guess is that you actually need ALL 5 keys to open the lock. ie insert each key, turn - when ALL 5 keys have been turned, it opens, therefore ONLY the 5th key will actually open the lock.

the 6th key is a key that opens it all by itself, for convenience sake.

Pretty simple in principle....
Message: Posted by: Devils Advocaat (Aug 7, 2002 03:36AM)
Only one problem with the above... a 'wrong' key will NOT *turn*, that's the point of the lock...this only happens in the 'Ye Olde English' type padlock which does not snap shut. I too thought about gimmicked keys, something on the line of shells, maybe.

Frank. :hrmph:
Message: Posted by: Andy Leviss (Aug 7, 2002 03:56AM)
Has anybody actually [i][b]seen[/i][/b] the Paramount lock firsthand? Or, to rephrase, can anybody actually give us real fact on this instead of mere speculation?
Message: Posted by: Devils Advocaat (Aug 7, 2002 04:43AM)
More to the point Andy, does this thing actually exist? Seems like no-one has got one, seen one or used one! Search the dealers...nothing. Maybe it's a one-off!


Frank. :idea:
Message: Posted by: WR (Aug 7, 2002 02:16PM)
According to Pratical mental magic any lock can be used. In the book two locks are used I only use one.
Most magically yours,
WR
Message: Posted by: Michael Peterson (Aug 7, 2002 02:27PM)
I have a feeling it's a method, not the lock( a very simple one at that). On that note, I would highly recommend Mark Strivings & keys to Baldpate routine.

You can contact Mark at- MarkyApril@aol.com
Message: Posted by: Paul (Aug 7, 2002 02:34PM)
Basically, who really cares, its just a 7 key routine, and the suggested routine locking a bill in between plastic sheets has been around a while and is not a particularly good presentation.

I doubt very much it is Max's Keys To The Future from that description, though that routine could use any lock. I had a variation on that which appeared with Max's permission in my book "TOTAT Rides Again" several years back, which included a suggestion whereby you could get the booker to provide their own lock and keys.

Another version of mine without keys used a combination padlock and appeared in my book "Mental Mix".

The basic effect of course originated with Kolar. There are several good marketed versions,and some good unmarketed ones. The one described here didn't particularly excite me, but it's whatever floats your boat. :hmm:

There was a thread on Seven Keys before Frank, may be worh doing a search.

Paul.
Message: Posted by: WR (Aug 7, 2002 03:08PM)
Ich.,
Thats the one I do it is off a tape called Annemann ....Something.
Most magicall yours,
WR :pepsi:
Message: Posted by: Lee Marelli (Aug 7, 2002 04:32PM)
Paul, you are right on the earlier thread. I know because I was the topic's author.

I strongly believe you are also right on the "who cares" concept. There are many excellent "7 Keys" effects available, using gimmicked and ungimmicked locks, without spending time finding and paying exhorburant prices for the "latest and greatest (at least according to the seller of the effect). There have been some excellent suggestions for "7 Keys" effects in this thread.
Message: Posted by: jecar (Aug 7, 2002 04:46PM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-07 17:32, Lee Marelli wrote:
Paul, you are right on the earlier thread. I know because I was the topic's author.

I strongly believe you are also right on the "who cares" concept. There are many excellent "7 Keys" effects available, using gimmicked and ungimmicked locks, without spending time finding and paying exhorburant prices for the "latest and greatest (at least according to the seller of the effect). There have been some excellent suggestions for "7 Keys" effects in this thread.
[/quote]

Here's another good one....Ed Fowler's 'When You Wake Up Tonight'.

Contact Ed at: carlyle@infi.net

Jerry Cargile
..
Message: Posted by: DavyBoy (Aug 11, 2002 02:42PM)
It's fairly easy to make your own version of this rather than buying any specialist props.
See 'Max Maven's Videomind' tapes for a perfomance of the Baldplate trick. I think it's on the Close up mentalism volume.

DavyBoy.
Message: Posted by: finmag (Jan 13, 2011 01:34AM)
I just found this rather old thread and thought I would take a very late moment to clear up any confusion.

Commenting on relevent comments in order are...

This effect can be done with almost any type of lock. The "Paramount Principle" can be applied to most locks. Most commonly, magicians and performers use padlocks. Thus, the original effect is with a padlock. That is why a padlock is included. If you wanted to do this effect with a locked house or room, a dead bolt or door knob would be included.

There is no lock switch invovled with the effect. It is clean and simple. If you really wanted to, you could use the lock to lock up your equipment or bike or whatever. The original padlock version is a 2" solid brass Guard padlock.

The presentation mentioned was with 5 keys yet it comes with 6 keys (all the keys are different). This allows for many, many different possible presentations making it extremely versatile. The standard effect is of course the old one where 4 spectators have free choice of any key. Each one tries their key and the lock does not work. (If your presentation allows for it, any or all of the spectators can try their key as many times as they like). The 5th and last remaining key opens the lock (no key or lock switch required).

My personal favourite presentation is very simple and only uses 2 keys with the lock (no switches required). The spectator is given one padlock and 2 keys. They try the keys in the lock and see that only one key operates the lock. The lock is locked, the spectator holds the key that does not work tight in their fist. The performer holds the key that does work tight in his (or her) fist. A quick Howie Mandel fist bump and the keys trade places. Now the spectator is holding the key that works and the performer is holding the key that does not work. The spectator (or a second spectator) tries the keys themselves to verify this. No switches involved and the trick starts and ends with the spectator trying the keys.
Message: Posted by: Tom Jorgenson (Jan 14, 2011 03:46PM)
...and is there a current link to the product anywhere, who sells it, how much and etc??
Message: Posted by: Dick Christian (Jan 14, 2011 04:30PM)
[quote]
On 2011-01-13 02:34, finmag wrote:
My personal favourite presentation is very simple and only uses 2 keys with the lock (no switches required). The spectator is given one padlock and 2 keys. They try the keys in the lock and see that only one key operates the lock. The lock is locked, the spectator holds the key that does not work tight in their fist. The performer holds the key that does work tight in his (or her) fist. A quick Howie Mandel fist bump and the keys trade places. Now the spectator is holding the key that works and the performer is holding the key that does not work. The spectator (or a second spectator) tries the keys themselves to verify this. No switches involved and the trick starts and ends with the spectator trying the keys.
[/quote]

finmag,

I've read and re-read your post several times now and must admit that I am baffled at what strikes me as your decision to take a classic effect in mentalism and turn it into a "Look, the keys just changed places" piece of "throw-away" magic. Seems to me that one of us has completely missed the point/premise of the effect -- and I don't think it's me. Am I wrong?
Message: Posted by: mastermindreader (Jan 14, 2011 04:44PM)
I have to agree with Dick. Sounds more like "The Hippity Hop Keys" than mentalism. And it seems to literally scream "trick lock."

Good thoughts,

Bob
Message: Posted by: iam4ft3 (Dec 5, 2012 08:49PM)
I have the other version of K-e-Rect I know it as Crook Lock or Seven Keys to Baldplate. Looking to sell at magicwsm@aol.com
Thanks
Irwin
Message: Posted by: magic123 (Dec 18, 2012 02:58PM)
Mr. im4ft 3

What are you asking for this trick ?