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Topic: Body Language,Nlp,Stage Hypnosis
Message: Posted by: Luke Kerr (Aug 21, 2002 06:00AM)
Somebody has hints about good books and resources for NLP ,Body Language Hypnosis and so on?
Do you think this things are important for a mentalist to know and use?
Message: Posted by: Mike Spremulli (Aug 21, 2002 07:00AM)
Hi Luke:

There have been many books written on NLP. The first book I ever read on the subject (and one that continues to be one of my favorites) is "Frogs Into Prices" by Richard Bandler and John Grinder. It's by no means an exhaustive study, but in my opinion an excellent starting place.

To answer you second question, I'd have to say YES -- absolutely! The majority of our work comes downs to the words that we use and how we use them. NLP and hypnosis provide excellent frames of reference to work within when crafting our verbal and nonverbal messages.

Regards,
Mike Spremulli :bigdance:
Message: Posted by: Darmoe (Aug 21, 2002 08:39AM)
Luke

Check out the works of our own Rex Sikes and his associates @ WonderWizards.com (Kenton Knepper, J.Tank and others.) You will also find some reasonable "101" type insights through Anthony Robbins book "Unlimited Power".

If you are wanting to learn how to be a good Reader you may want to take a course in Profiling Techniques as are used in law enforcement (some community colleges offer this as a one semester program) Other areas to look at include Asian Face Reading and along those lines, I believe Ford has a book out on Body Shapes and how it corresponds to key personality types. I've also found legit Palmistry and Numerology of value.

About 3-4 years ago I began sharing a little something with a few friends I consider one of my personal "silver bullets" when it comes to Readings... a little book by Louise L. Hay entitled "You Can Heal Your Life". I've had several comment on how this is a Reading system in and of itself... I know it's done me good over the years.

Best of luck!
Message: Posted by: Vision (Aug 21, 2002 09:00AM)
I've been wondering if Jung's teachings on archetypes may have any use? Anyone know anything about that?
I've barely touched the surface of Jungs teachings, at all. :donut2:
Message: Posted by: Luke Kerr (Aug 21, 2002 09:46AM)
[quote]
Check out the works of our own Rikes Sikes and his associates @ WonderWizards.com (Kenton Knepper, J.Tank and others.) You will also find some reasonable "101" type insights through Anthony Robbins book "Unlimited Power".

Best of luck!
[/quote]

Thanks,so Sikes for the NLP and Profiling tecniques for reading.
I found there also book about suggestion hypnosis and other NLPrelated things(or do u know other sources,also outside of the magic world)
Message: Posted by: mysterium (Aug 21, 2002 10:32AM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-21 10:00, Vision wrote:
I've been wondering if Jung's teachings on archetypes may have any use? Anyone know anything about that?
I've barely touched the surface of Jungs teachings, at all.
[/quote]

Jung's writings are very interesting, and being aware of archetypes can certainly enhance your readings. But if you're looking for material you can immediately incorporate into readings, I'm not sure that it's the best "practical" source.

His book on synchronicity remains one of my favorite on the topic. Jung originated the term to describe meaningful coincidences. Knowledge of synchronicity theories can be of *great* value to psychics and mentalists, for patter ideas and when just talking about psychic subjects.
Message: Posted by: shrink (Aug 21, 2002 12:29PM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-21 10:46, Luke Kerr wrote:
[quote]
Check out the works of our own Rikes Sikes and his associates @ WonderWizards.com (Kenton Knepper, J.Tank and others.) You will also find some reasonable "101" type insights through Anthony Robbins book "Unlimited Power".

Best of luck!
[/quote]

Thanks,so Sikes for the NLP and Profiling tecniques for reading.
I found there also book about suggestion hypnosis and other NLPrelated things(or do u know other sources,also outside of the magic world)

[/quote]

A really good book on language and an easy read is "psychology of persuasion" by Kevin Hogan. It covers many NLP language patterns, and techniques used by evangelists..really good book.
Message: Posted by: Andy Leviss (Aug 21, 2002 04:11PM)
BTW, I should point out that Rex's site is at http://www.idea-seminars.com

There are some really good articles on there, as well as info on Rex's seminars, books, etc.
Message: Posted by: xersekis (Aug 21, 2002 05:46PM)
Hey thanks. That's cool of you guys mentioning the site.

The link is actually
http://www.idea-seminars.com

Enjoy!
Rex
Message: Posted by: Andy Leviss (Aug 21, 2002 11:39PM)
Oops...sorry 'bout that, Rex. I corrected the link in my post as well :o)

(For those who were confused, I inadvertently left out the hyphen when I initially posted the URL)
Message: Posted by: The Paranormalist (Aug 22, 2002 06:28AM)
There is a chapter in Derren Brown's Book: Pure Effect on NLP and body language, its very interesting. There are also a number of books available on the subject of body language. Good Luck
Message: Posted by: Dr Omni (Aug 22, 2002 08:49AM)
The most distinguished master of hypnosis in the 20th century was Dr Milton H. Erickson, doctor of medicine, psychiatrist and psychotherapist extraordinaire. Much of NLP (certainly the most useful parts) are derived - a polite word for copied - from his work. Two good introductions to Erickson's hypnotherapy are:

Richard Bandler and John Grinder, Trance-formations

Rubin Battino and Tom South, Ericksonian Approaches

Erickson himself wrote thousands of pages on hypnosis and related subjects, but never really summarised his life work in a single volume. His collected papers on hypnosis were assembled into a series of four large volumes, edited by Ernst Rossi, which are now out of print.

The serious student of these subjects is recommended to look at the above materials.
Message: Posted by: Luke Kerr (Aug 22, 2002 10:28AM)
Thank's to all,reading old post i've also make up my mind to ask a more detailed question.
If you have to buy up to two books for each of these point of interest what you will buy?

1)Cold reading Method(someone (pheraps craig) says to select one method only and use it for at least an year before going into more generalized things)
2)NlP & Hypnosis Theory(Book with no technique but that explain deep the motivation and brain processes so that one could know more than some mechanical techinque)
3)Nlp and Hypnosis Practical Books(Some with techniques and practical system,i think it's good to have from the start point a book like this because it motivate you more than theory book)
4)Profiling Person.

After those also some more Show-Oriented
5)Resource for stage nlp,reading and hypnotism .
6)Psycological tricks to use while performing.
Message: Posted by: Swami Bill (Aug 22, 2002 04:26PM)
I have used Kenton Knepper's "Completely Cold" in conjuntion with other texts to build interesting and workable readings. If you're intersted in an NLP approach this is one suggestion.
As an aside: I am becoming quite interested in using NLP in mentalism and other magic.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Aug 22, 2002 08:43PM)
The best books to help you in regards to hynosis are:
The New Complete Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis by Ormond McGill AND
They Call it Hypnosis by Robert Baker.

Not everyone subscribes to the theories of NLP and as one such person I won't recommend anything in that genre.

As for cold reading techniques, the only thing I would recommend is Ken DeCourcey's "The Systematic Seer". Other than that, you don;t need anything unless you plan to actually do psychic readings in which case I suggest that you learn an actual system for the reading. In other words, if you want to read Tarot Cards, then learn the actual meaning of the cards and READ them. If your sitter is paying for a particular type of reading, don;t you think that they deserve that and not a bunch of magician's gobbldy *** wrapped up with a personality profile.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Message: Posted by: Millard123 (Aug 22, 2002 10:12PM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-22 21:43, Thoughtreader wrote:
The best books to help you in regards to hynosis are:
The New Complete Encyclopedia of Stage Hypnosis by Ormond McGill AND
They Call it Hypnosis by Robert Baker.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree with Paul's advice here and especially recommend the Baker book. I learned much about trance from Baker's book and he claims hypnosis doesn't exist!

Millard
Message: Posted by: Swami Bill (Aug 23, 2002 03:20PM)
I find this to be an interesting thread.

Paul, I respect your opinion highly if only from what I have read in this forum. I'm not sure I "subscribe" to the theories of NLP either but I do find this approach worthy of further study.
While not a hypnotist, I wonder if information for a reading, say, couldn't be gleaned from these and like techniques.
Without getting too far off topic, do I understand you to say that you just don't think the "method" is viable and one who is doing readings could gather the same info in another way? I may be way off base here but would like to hear more.

Swami Bill

P.S. Anyone else, too, for that matter!
Message: Posted by: Luke Kerr (Aug 23, 2002 06:15PM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-23 16:20, Swami Bill wrote:
I find this to be an interesting thread.

Paul, I respect your opinion highly if only from what I have read in this forum. I'm not sure I "subscribe" to the theories of NLP either but I do find this approach worthy of further study.
[/quote]

I don't know if it's work and I'm gonna trying.
I must admit that I know one or two salesman and higher level employed of some big names of the market that had been teached in npl to seem more friendly and convincing and for them it seem to work.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Aug 23, 2002 08:17PM)
Hmmmm, to be more friendly and convincing? How about being honest and sincere?!?! Doesn't take any psycological B-S to be either of those and in fact to be a successful and entertaining (as well as believable) psychic entertainer you MUST be sincere.

As for "getting information" from other sources? Since when does a psychic have to get information? A psychic reader takes the impressions they get from their sitter and tells their future. Magicians are under the impression that a psychic gives personality profiles, tells the person about themselves, tells them things they want to hear and then the sitter pays and leaves. Guess what? That's NOT how it works. You want to learn HOW a good reader does it?

Spend some money and go and see several different psychics for readings. Tape record the session and listen to the recording. Listen closely to the psychics that asked NO questions. These are the good ones. Learn what they say and study it. You will see that they don't tend to do what most magicians will tell you they do and in fact most of those know-it-all magicians have not even seen a psychic reading in progress. it is just far easier for them to spout garbage and B-S they read from others.

If you want to read tarot, learn what the cards mean and then read. It's a helluva lot easier than trying to remember the latest crap the last magic book on cold reading told you to say and do. If you are going to read tea leaves or crystals, then learn what the symbols mean and read legitamtely. If you want to use psychometry - well that one is a real difficult one and you might need some "techniques" for that unless you really got the mojo.

In any event, figure out what you want to read and learn the way you are supposed to read and forget about the other nonsense. And remember that if you are going to do readings, you are not there to do tricks and impress the people with your "skills" you are there to READ and what you read WILL affect peoples lives. This is serious stuff. If all you want to do is tricks and entertain, forget about readings! These are not to be dabbled with and MUST be taken seriously because belive me, you will regret it if you don't and you find you seriously hurt someone through your actions.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
Message: Posted by: shrink (Aug 24, 2002 07:09AM)
[quote]




you are not there to do tricks and impress the people with your "skills" you are there to READ and what you read WILL affect peoples lives. This is serious stuff. If all you want to do is tricks and entertain, forget about readings! These are not to be dabbled with and MUST be taken seriously because belive me, you will regret it if you don't and you find you seriously hurt someone through your actions.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft
[/quote]

I would agree with most of what you said. But there are also "psychics" out there who have learned the systems and do hurt people's lives to.

As for NLP I think the same should be applied before anyone can make an informed judgement. What I mean is forget the usual eye patterns and the same old stuff that comes up in these forums and in basic books.

NLP is a vast collection of skills and techniques drawn from many disciplines. It takes time and a considerable amount of resources to learn. Having facilitated many one-to-one breakthrough sessions you do become intuitive to the point where you can more or less "tune" into the dominant thought patterns of people around you.

This is partly due to the fact that there is a limited number of situations and problems that people come to be treated for. After a while you can sense what they are with very little information. Not only that you can guide them verbally to making the changes they need by harnessing their own inner resources, in order to improve their situation. These skills only come with training and actually doing NLP. Not from reading a book.

In this context a reader with both skills could benefit many sitters. Not just by being more intuitive, but also more proficient in empowering their clients.
Message: Posted by: Thoughtreader (Aug 24, 2002 04:08PM)
A good solid education and background in psychology and counselling is the only thing that one should have in their background if they are to benefit clients that really need help. there are bad psychics out there (normally they are shuteyes) that overstep their bounderies and give advice they shouldn't however, regardless of their training, whether or not they used cold reading techniques or so called NLP to provide them with information, if they are not experienced to give "personal advice" to help with problems, they should NOT be doing that. They should be gently moving their sitters towards the professional help they need.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft

BTW - I do have both a psychology and counselling background (read that as University degree training) and actually do know what I am talking about in this regard.
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Aug 25, 2002 12:34AM)
Tradecraft an ebook at http://www.trickshop.com is pretty cool, and compared to the competition, pretty inexpensive!
Message: Posted by: shrink (Aug 25, 2002 07:46AM)
[quote]
On 2002-08-24 17:08, Thoughtreader wrote:
A good solid education and background in psychology and counselling is the only thing that one should have in their background if they are to benefit clients that really need help. there are bad psychics out there (normally they are shuteyes) that overstep their bounderies and give advice they shouldn't however, regardless of their training, whether or not they used cold reading techniques or so called NLP to provide them with information, if they are not experienced to give "personal advice" to help with problems, they should NOT be doing that. They should be gently moving their sitters towards the professional help they need.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
http://www.stores.ebay.ca/abstagecraft

BTW - I do have both a psychology and counselling background (read that as University degree training) and actually do know what I am talking about in this regard.
[/quote]

While I do agree with you most what you say.. even the simplest of readings should be up beat and positive. That alone will benefit the sitter. I can't see any reason why anyone would want a reading if they did not benefit from it in some way. And many people who do come for readings are looking for help which they believe they will get from the reading. Readings should help people otherwise apart from the odd piece of entertainment why would anyone want one?

And I have worked with many of people over the years and find that most traditional counselling prolongs problems. It doesn't help. Many months of counselling can in many cases be replaced with one long breakthrough session lasting 6-8 hours. The point I was making earlier is that NLP is more than eye patterns or reading a book.
Message: Posted by: crouter (Aug 28, 2002 08:45PM)
There is a monograph on combining handwriting analysis and Myer-Briggs types for readings. The Myer-Briggs types are based upon the work of C.G. Jung.
The name of the monograph is "Type Graphology" and it is available from H&R Magic Books.