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Topic: Santini/Lee - The Truth Revealed
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Oct 3, 2004 07:48PM)
The last 36 hours have seen the high emotions of the past 6 months finally come to a head here in All Tied Up.
For most of the Escape Artist (EA) community it has been half a year of fighting, back stabbing and plain old lies.
We have seen many respected EA's head for the hills and leave the Café completely.
So, today I decided to take it on myself to seek out the truth about Santini, and to present it to the EA community for them all to see.
I began by replying to a post by Michael Lee. Who had said, among other things, that: 1) Steve Santini's book 'Everything you ever wanted to know about escapes... but nobody would tell you' was not worth the paper it was printed on. He claimed that Mr Santini was not fit to write such a book due to the fact that he was not a professional EA. He continued saying that the information contained within the book had been available in other publications for some time. 2) Mr Lee went on to say that he should be considered as a top EA himself. That he 'defeated Santini' and was superior. He put himself in the same league as Mr Bigelow and Mr Baker.
I then challenged him, asking him to clarify his statements. His response was that he should be classed as a legend because of who he had performed for (ie the Clintons) and nothing about what he had offered to the community. He also repeated the statement about beating Santini's handcuffs.
I therefore asked him to clarify what he had said. Which sadly he did not and the thread was deleted by the management. So I asked the questions again.
After some time I had a reply. But this was not a reply from Mr Lee. It was also not a reply from Santini. Now this EA had some very interesting information regarding Mr Lee. They stated that Mr Lee had offered to help them with an effect. A noble jesture. So the effect was video taped and sent off. Now this EA waited for a while but Mr Lee is to reply with his help not even a 'thank you'. The EA went on to say that when Santini offered the challenge to Lee to try out his cuffs 'Lee said no'.
I decided to dig a little deeper and came across many different articles regarding Steve Santini and his work as an EA. These articles dated back to the eighties and came right up to his latest jail escape. Amateur??? I think NOT.
I continued and performed a search for Mr Lee. After searching for approximately 3 hours I found a website, http://www.michaell.net. I got excited. But it was all in vein. The site belongs to a self confessed starwars geek. Not the famous Michael Lee, Escape Artist.
During the day many others on the forum have also sent PM's and emails regarding the habits of Michael Lee. Each and every one of them speak the same story. That he is a lier, a thief of ideas uncapable of creating anything original.
Mr Lee has REFUSED to BACK-UP his earlier CLAIMS.

In conclusion; Steve Santini is a full time EA. For this he should be respected in the same way as any craftsman that can do his chosen job well. He did challenge Michael Lee to escape his cuffs, yet Mr Lee refused and turned him down. Mr Lee may or may not be a great EA. We will never truly know the answer. BUT, Steve Santini should no-longer be refered to as a hack, a fake or a fraud. Comments about any performer should be kept to oneself unless acusations can be backed up by real evidence (not a paragraph in your mates new book) to prove the point.

Roslyn Walker
I am not affraid to go where others fear to tread
Message: Posted by: MarkTripp (Oct 4, 2004 05:47AM)
I think, more to the point, this is a battle over a VERY small pie.

Truth be told, being the "worlds best escape artist" is a title right up there with "best one arm push up doer".

For the last month I have done an experiement in my shows. I ask the kids under 10 who help me if they know who David Copperfield is. Do you know that 99% have NO idea!

That is how quickly they forget!

Choosing the hill you are willing to die on is important in your daily life; all of th is has gone too far.

I have a DVD coming out in November/December. Some people will like it, some will not, do I care either way? Not really....

...I learned long ago that my audience validates my work, not my "peers".

The same is true for all of you.....
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Oct 4, 2004 07:14AM)
Indeed Mark you are right. It is the audience that validates our work.

However, if one man is going to say something that is ***ing towards another man then I feel that person has to put forward his case for saying such things. If they can't then they should not be saying it.

Roslyn
Message: Posted by: Stuart Burrell (Oct 4, 2004 07:23AM)
Roslyn

Mr Lee has asked many of us to read between the lines of his posts to 'find the truth' about Mr Santini.

This silence could be caused by anthing, from Mr Lee being away from his computer, to a technical fault to simply not wanting to answer your questions.

Good job I am not reading between the lines or I might indeed change my opinion.

Mr Tripp

I have to agree that there are many other 'worlds best' and it depends on your point of view. I hope that I am man enough to see as many of those views as I can in my life
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 4, 2004 08:05AM)
Ok lets ask this Question who Has Helped More. Mr A or Mr B I'll let the People Here Decide who can be Who.
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Oct 4, 2004 08:15AM)
Steve Santini's wonderful book speaks for itself. If anyone knows where all this was published before, let me know, I'll buy those books also.

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: SANTINI (Oct 4, 2004 08:41AM)
One small post for the record...

I do not claim to be "the best" at anything nor "The World's Greatest".

To make such a claim is foolhardy and illogical.

I just enjoy doing escapes and have my entire life.

As for my latest book and the recent slams it is getting; I do not expect everyone to react the same to anything henceforth I am not bothered that some do not like the publication.

I personally do not like some types of food but other love them and vice versa.

Just because someone from Genii did not like the book does not at all mean it is not good. Everything is matter of personal preferance and besides, the reviewer was not even an escape artist!

It really does not matter one bit.

At this time I find solace in these two facts:

1) There are a number of people who have indeed found the book of use and I thank them for the kind impressions of my work. It has apparantly helped them and that is what I wrote and published it for in the first place. So, I can happily say "mission accomplished"!

and finally,

2) The manager of the Grand Ole Oprey in Nashville once told a young man by the name of Elvis Presley that he should give up all hopes of being a singer and instead seriously reconsider going back to driving a truck again.

Enough said!

Steve Santini
Message: Posted by: drwilson (Oct 4, 2004 08:45AM)
Steve,

Wow, the manager of the trucking firm I used to drive for told me to forget about being a trucker and go off and be a magician or something.

Yours,

Paul
Message: Posted by: SANTINI (Oct 4, 2004 09:00AM)
Hi Paul,

At least in your case he was right!

Years later did you in turn look him up and tell him to quit being a trucking firm manager and become a mentalist? :)

Steve
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Oct 4, 2004 09:20AM)
Well I am the worlds greatest voice over artist and do the worlds greatest magic intros...

I also wrote the worlds greatest book on Dark Rides (True it is the ONLY book ever written on Theme Park Carnival/Dark Rides but that's beside the point it's great and I am the greatest for writing it and I have hundreds of reviews to prove it.)

I build the worlds greatest strange sideshow exhibits for showmen/women!

I also make the worlds greatest spaghetti sauce. (I have a trophy!)

How do I know this? I've been told by others many times so it must all be true...

Thus...I AM THE GREAT I AM! Or is all that just a Sales Pitch to move intros, push books, sell sauce and Feegee Mermaids?

...and IF it were true who gives a crap?
What does it all mean? Bean Dip.

I'm still broke and older than rope.

I feel the fool for even typing that stuff (even though it's in jest).

Steve Santini is the World's Greatest Steve Santini...no one else can make that claim and I'm proud to know somebody who IS the world's greatest at being themselves.

Someone, a sales trainer, once told me "Humble sucks".

He was wrong...it doesn't, it just gets in the way of sales sometimes. Though curiosly a lack of it can antagonize your intended customers.


Doug
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 4, 2004 09:29AM)
I'm Glad that Steve is into it Likes it. if it werent for him and X-Treem I wouldnt know a few pieces of information but I do now and I'll like to Thank Them Both.
Message: Posted by: AJP807 (Oct 4, 2004 11:29AM)
Hey Doug, how about a hint on that tomato sauce recipe....does it contain just a hint of basil? How about oregano? Is there a book in the works? Please let us know. Tony
Message: Posted by: Doug Higley (Oct 4, 2004 11:40AM)
Hahahaha...

it's good but I doubt if it's the worlds greatest!

I entered this cook off once judged by a bunch of pro casino chefs and won the darn thing.

I put my Meatless sauce up against the Meat Sauces and got the trophy...it was fun...I'll send you the recipe if I can find the darn thing. (The reason I did a Meatless was the meat I had bought went bad on the way to the cook off so I had to improvise.)

My secret was...instead of Meat...I stirred in a few EGGS when sauteing the onions and garlic paste etc...in other words...I used a Gimmick! (uh...cheated) hahaha.


Doug

I found it and PMd you. :)
Message: Posted by: AJP807 (Oct 4, 2004 01:08PM)
Thanks for the PM Doug, the recipe looks great! I can't wait to try it. Tony
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Oct 4, 2004 05:12PM)
Okay, here's my two gold galleons worth for the 'proving the infinite negative' conundrum:

I'm the world's greatest REAL sorcerer and there is a purple unicorn on a planet somewhere in the known universe.

Prove me wrong.
:dance:
Steve
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 5, 2004 01:48AM)
Dr Stephen Don't Forget about PUFF THE MAGIC DRAGON in a Land Called Avonlea.
Message: Posted by: x-treem (Oct 5, 2004 02:59AM)
I can prove you wrong, the gay leprechaun (better knowen as the green fairy) who lives in my sock drawer (to keep all of my left socks safe) told me you were fulla bull because the unicorn is actually plum colored.
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 5, 2004 03:08AM)
ROFLMFAO. uh Does this Gay Leperchaun Fairy AKA Green Fairy have a Magic Wand to make all the Right Socks to disappear or turn into left Socks. Don,
Message: Posted by: x-treem (Oct 5, 2004 03:12AM)
His job is to ward off the one eyed monkey who seels them on the Christian Black Market (only sell the "Holy" ones) [i]Rim Shot[/i] I out punned you :)
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 5, 2004 07:39AM)
Christian Black Maket Huh. how about a Blind one eyed monkey that way we can say he saw no evil in doing it and are the Holy Socks with a hole in them besides where the foot goes in or is it extra holes to that make them Holy.
Message: Posted by: AJP807 (Oct 5, 2004 02:39PM)
Are you guys smoking those funny weeds I saw in the fields of Wisconsin when I was there earlier this month?
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 5, 2004 03:11PM)
Tony Funny Weeds us Smoking not me. I don't smoke or Drink. you were Here and didn't say Hi. Gee with Friends like you who needs Enemies.
Message: Posted by: AJP807 (Oct 7, 2004 12:32PM)
Hey Don, who can track you down? I don't even have a picture to go by. It's like you're in the witness protection program or something. But I'll be there next year for Houdini Days. Maybe we can get togeteher then if not at Indy or whereever it's going to be next time. Best regards, Tony Parisi
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 7, 2004 01:54PM)
Tony I might be in Middleton if Houdini Days is the Same as the Convention. I already Got Busted at The Convention by someone who knew me but never met me. Don,
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Oct 15, 2004 05:18AM)
I was hoping I'd have a decent update for you guys since it's been almost 2 weeks since my original questions. Sadly this is not so.

Roslyn
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 15, 2004 06:43AM)
Roslyn What was the original Question ?
Message: Posted by: Roslyn (Oct 15, 2004 06:49AM)
Don, Don, Don. Where have you been the last couple of weeks? I'm refering to my questions I set Michael Lee.
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Oct 15, 2004 06:54AM)
Now I got you. now Who is Michael Lee has anyone ever seen him or met him at all or seen any newspaper articles on him.
Message: Posted by: RickSilmser (Dec 28, 2004 06:04PM)
I have to admit something, I really don't like Steve Santini as a human...but I will admit, I've read his stuff and someone just can't fake the knowledge he has. I've seen his website and I will again admit, he is a seasoned Escape Artist and is good at what he does. But, again, I will say, as a human, I don't trust him as far as I can throw him. I've been in the escape business for over 25 years and I've never heard of this Micheal Lee fellow. If I had to bet money, it would be on Santini...nuff said.
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Dec 28, 2004 08:00PM)
I have not seen or Heard of Mr Lee. but supposedly there are pictures of him in some magic magazines if I remember correctly. and as for Mr Santini I have received more Help and Advice from Mr Santini. then I have Mr Lee.
Message: Posted by: MrEscape (Dec 28, 2004 08:31PM)
Santini/Lee - The Truth Revealed?

What has been revealed, and what is the truth? I believe the jury is still out on Mr Lee. He is becoming more myth than fact! Steve Santini on the other hand is there for all to see. He is a seasoned escape artist and very good at what he does, as was mentioned. We all have our faults now don't we? Is a man in chains, but a mind caught in a trap? Or, a victim searching for the ultimate truth?

Sir Harry J. Baron III
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Dec 29, 2004 02:55AM)
Who knows and the best thing is just to leave it alone.
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Dec 30, 2004 03:53AM)
All I have ever asked of the loud mouths in our art is the following: "Judge me on what I have done to you. Not on innuendo and bs made up by those who are jealous."

So I must judge Mr. Santini with respect, honor, and admiration. Its a hard business, and he sells his products to us, sells his shows to them, and will even give anyone help.

And I hate magicians these days!
Message: Posted by: Bigelow (Dec 30, 2004 05:23AM)
Hi Dr Zodiac
Can you tell me where the innuendo and BS is? The word jealous is usually only used by those who in themselves get jealous at others. Most realize that there are some better and some worse. Maybe some just don't like being told crap. In the recent week, there has been a message from Mr Ness to say that one Santini escape with blue box never saw the light of day but several others praised it weeks before as the best thing ever ( though they never owned one) is there BS here?
A new member to our area said "If anyone see's Steve Santini, please tell him he still owes me a pair of Darby leg irons from a deal we made years ago..." who is BSing here?
Just because a website has something written ( for or by the owner doesn't make it real )
Anthony Martin had a website that stated that he was the only legitamte escape artist. In his own TV special he used non legitimate escapes. Who is BSing who in this art?

David
Message: Posted by: Stuart Burrell (Dec 30, 2004 06:34AM)
Hi

"Who is BSing Who in this art?"

Well if we are really going to make honesty our New Years resolution then I guess we are all guilty.

I am in agreement with Sir Harry J. Baron III on the fact that we all have faults.

***

Maybe the real issue is what is typed in on the forum can be taken out of context. Maybe we should have it passed by Lawyers first?

How about this as an example of what I have just typed in

***
Hi

(A greeting used in conversation and not a comment on the altitude above sea level I am currently writing at or a comment on any one persons lifestyle)

"Who is BSing Who in this art?"

(A direct quote from Bigelow (who is not Norman Bigelow so do not get confused as to authorship))

Well if we...

(as in the group not we as in just myself or Bigelow)

...are really...

(as in actually doing something about it)

...going to make honesty...

(a concept lost in modern political and real life)

...our New Years...

(Calendar not Financial)

...resolution then I guess we are all guilty.

(not being blameless)

I am in agreement with Sir Harry J. Baron III...

(MrEscape (not Steve Baker so please do not get confused on the authorship)

...on the fact that we...

(taken by this author to be the group and not either Bigelow, MrEscape, Mr Santini or any single individual)

...all have faults.

(as in errors that are common to human beings)

***

Well that makes everything clear. A steal at $150.00 an hour.

Happy Holidays.
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Dec 30, 2004 07:20AM)
Bigelow A.K.a. David may I ask where you are from and how long you have been in Escapes Etc.
Message: Posted by: MrEscape (Dec 30, 2004 11:41AM)
From what I have read here on the Magic Café, which in my opinion is the best forum of it's kind around. I must say, that one to many "Escape Artists" and those that try to come across as the "Experts" seem to spend more time bickering and complaining about something or about someone, than discussing what this forum is all about! "The Art of Escape" How about ringing in the New Year with what this great art is all about? In my opinion "The History" "Skill" "Talent" "The Performers" and "Entertainment Value" of course you could add several more items to this list, but it's the basic's in my opinion. This may shock some of you, and to those with the inflated EGO'S! There are no experts, no one is perfect, we all have our opinions, and the bottom line here is this, no one is better than anyone else here! If anyone has heartburn with what I just said, then you live in a fantasy world and should probably move on. No one here or anywhere else, cornered the market on escapes! Share thoughts, be creative, give advice and remember this, the audience will decide your destiny in this art! You never stop learning, so try and stop judging others! And be respectful of everyones opinion, whether you agree or disagree! Perhaps you will all start getting along better!

Sir Harry J. Baron III
Message: Posted by: Dr_Stephen_Midnight (Dec 30, 2004 05:32PM)
And, having cleared that hurdle, register for the W.E.A.R. if you haven't already done so.

Steve
Message: Posted by: RickSilmser (Dec 30, 2004 10:21PM)
Well, Mr. Bigelow, I'm the guy who said Santini owes me a pair of Leg irons. He was at my home on Georgian Drive in Barrie, Ontario back in 1989 or 1990. We were making some deals for some Houdini material I had, he wanted a certain piece and didn't have enough to pay for it, so I said "send me a pair of darby leg irons" which I never saw. That was the same day I gave Santini a mint condition photograph of Dunninger, a B&W 8x10, with the writing "Dunninger" "Studio Productions" printed at the bottom. I gave him that photo as a gesture of friendship.

So...if you want to call my memory BS...go ahead...By the way...I PM'd Santini and told him to put the leg irons he owes me around his neck and stuff them up his...well, you get the picture. I'm a very successful Mentalist in my area and in my venue, I have not, nor will I ever be jealous of anyone in my field. They will always have their 15 minutes of fame, as will I. They will always have their shows as will I...I just don't like to be double crossed when I put my trust in someone.



~Rick~
Message: Posted by: Bigelow (Dec 31, 2004 12:16AM)
Hi Rick, my name is David and yes you can call me that. My questions were actually directed to Dr Zodiac who keeps suggesting that there is jealousy and BS around, about other performers. I wanted to know if what you had posted (only referring to your message as one example) was considered to be BS by either Mr Santini or Mr Zodiac.

As you have a picture up then we might guess that you are not Mr Lee, but then no-one has seen a picture of Mr Lee either.

David
Message: Posted by: GreatWizardoftheEast (Dec 31, 2004 01:29AM)
Sir Harry J. Baron 3,
Intersting posts.
"This may shock some of you, and to those with the inflated EGO'S! There are no experts, no one is perfect, we all have our opinions, and the bottom line here is this, no one is better than anyone else here!"
Actually, at one time some experts in escape were posting on this board. If the bottom line is that no one is better than anyone else here, as you state, and I am only a fan of escape, then that makes everyone here merely a fan of escape and more than likely not very good, by your logic.
"No one here or anywhere else, cornered the market on escapes!" I can think of two guys who cornered the market on escapes. One grew up in Appleton Wisconsin. The other is the person who's name you took.
"And be respectful of everyones opinion, whether you agree or disagree!"
The tone of your post, at least to me, seems anything but respectful and for someone with only a few posts seems awfully preachy.
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Dec 31, 2004 02:46AM)
Nope, your right. I never mentioned any bs towards anyone. I have a private little war with a mentalism society, hence my use of the word bs. Theres a lot of it going around.

I simply stated that I judge people on how they have treated me. Why start a war on a public forum? Especially one that is devoted to expanding our minds towards our art.

The Café is supposed to be a place of neutral and unbiosed discussion of mechanics and aspects of magic. NOT NAME CALLING! I do not know what to say about riks claims. I wasnt there, nor will I or do I need to defend steve. Ricks an interesting man with lots of Dunninger knowledge, I love hearing your stories. that's what the Café should be for, the exchange of knowledge not name calling. Hence my not judging Rick, he has never done anything to me but help enlighten me. The same can be said for Mr. Santini.

Have your little war of words. Ask anyone in our business, all escapists are nuts! May you all feel self serving and grandiose while faustering innuendo (and bs).
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Dec 31, 2004 02:49AM)
Uh like I said Supposedly there were/are pictures of Michael Lee in some Magazine this is going by hear say. I'll try to look into it as soon as I can and see if I can track down the magazines to verify it.
Message: Posted by: RickSilmser (Dec 31, 2004 03:07AM)
Hello David...nice to meet you. Please excuse me, from the way that thread was written, it looked like it was implyed that I was taking a shot at Santini with the leg iron thing. Ok, all is understood. The last thing I want from anyone is bad blood here.

We are all brothers and sisters in this business and we have look at it that way...we are all hand in hand here. One may out do the other, but as they say..."there will always be greater and lesser people".

I think as each performer gets older and more confident in their ability, they come to realize that the name of the game is not "who's better than who" or "who is doing what", but..."am I better than I was then"? We spend far too much time worrying about what the next guy is doing or saying.

I know, that right now, there is some 14 year old kid out there, practicing his or her billet slights who is going to be a better billet reader than me, but I refuse to lose sleep over it, it's called natural progression. When the day comes when I see or meet him or her, I'm going to do all I can to help that person...and at the same time,do the best I can and try to leave my mark as a performer to the people and a teacher to the up and coming.

~Rick~
Message: Posted by: MarkTripp (Dec 31, 2004 09:36AM)
Well, I can show you ideas I put in my Genii column years ago that people are doing now with great aclaim and no credit.

Such is this business.


My goal is to assist others. As I said just last night, I have more material and acts than 5 people could use in a life time, why not share?

Mark Tripp
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Dec 31, 2004 10:11AM)
Mark Thank You For Sharing the Ideas. with Us here. I am amazed myself how that a lot of other people have to STEAL patter/ideas from someone else.
Message: Posted by: AJP807 (Jan 1, 2005 08:12PM)
I would just like to take this oppertunity to openly thank Mark and Ken for all of their contributions to this art and this board. Knowing both of you gentlemen has certainly made me a better EA, a better performer and a better person in general. I applaud both of you and look forward to many more useful contibutions to the Café' and to the art of Escapes. Thanks for sticking around guys :)
Best regards, Tony Parisi
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 1, 2005 08:21PM)
It is nice to know that not evreyone is leaving us stranded.
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 2, 2005 12:53AM)
I was trying to be objective. For the new year. I am trying to get rid of negativity. Does it ever help? I think I have found peace, so I wanted to help try and calm this board down a bit. It's not working is it? In the end, who cares, it makes each of us look bad, and why waste the time?

Santini performs. And it looks like he's fooled a lot of us. We are magi, that is what we do. So why get mad at him for fooling us? Those gimmicked cuffs he sells we all have bought. The knowledge he sells in those manuscript we use. Never do we ever say hey, fooling is bad. The gimmicks are a part of the art. Once again, make magic not war!

Viva la escapology!

Scott C. (My real name)
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 03:22AM)
Like I said some of the people are bull headed and those that are will always remain that way and the ones that help out with advice etc. will/should remain like that to. :)
Message: Posted by: RickSilmser (Jan 2, 2005 03:23AM)
Nice to meet you Scott...there is a really big difference between slight of hand, slight of mind and a gaffed cuff compared to dishonesty.

Scott, have you ever put your trust into someone and later found out that they had absolutely no intention of making good on their promise and that they did it with every intention of cheating you from the start ? If not, the feeling is like knowing that a stranger was in your home going through all of your personal possessions, you feel violated.


~Rick~
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 03:43AM)
Rick and Scott/Dr. Z Thank you.
Message: Posted by: SANTINI (Jan 2, 2005 09:08AM)
Now this has gone simply TOO FAR.

Yes sir, those same people do no longer post, but it is VERY clear they do not waste a minute when the chance to PM someone and spin crap about me presents itself.

As for the cells, ALL OF THEM are or were real and functional jail cells.

No "theme parks" or fantasy land attractions,... EVER.

And as for cells in museums, ...sure. POLICE MUSEUMS. You know, the cells police use?

Duh!

If any of you doubt it, including the so called "top" escape artists Rick mentions, then I challenge ANY of them, or you Rick, to get locked in them the same way I did and get out.

The result if you did? Probably most would fail and still be there.


The escapes I have done since I began at 14 I really did. I have the scars and the media to prove it. I need not prove anything to anyone.
As for me fooling anyone here, this is not something I have planned. If anyone is doing the fooling, it seems to be the threatened and insecure folks who talk about my escapes like they are bonafide experts on same when in fact many of these same people I have never even met nor did I see in attendance at ANY of these escapes.

If those of you who delight in practicing character assassination on me with such alarming frequency would put even one 5th of the same effort and zeal into your own escapes and careers, then the results would be amazing.

Perhaps then you might just be content enough that you would have no need or burning desire to try and deride or tear down the lifelong accomplishments of others, like myself for instance.

Steve Santini
Message: Posted by: RJE (Jan 2, 2005 09:43AM)
And who said Canadians are always polite??? Excuse me while I go chase those darn moose off my front lawn agin'

Cheers from North of the Border!

Rob
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 10:26AM)
I think it is kind of low that someone has to mention something about someone else. but like I said before Mr. Santini has Always Been Nice and Friendly to me. and by the way as for Canadains. my step-grampa came from edmonton Alberta.
Message: Posted by: AJP807 (Jan 2, 2005 11:02AM)
It's a shame that it takes an open attack on a public forum to lure Steve Santini back to posting. Steve has always been very helpful to me as well as many others I know and it's this kind of thing that made him fed up with this board to begin with. I was hoping we would rise above this kind of thing in the new year but I guess old habits die hard. Steve doesn't really need defending here but as someone who has seen him perform live and has actually had the honor of sharing the same stage with him, I would like to say that whatever personal problems anyone has had with him, I do regard him as a consummate professional, an excellent performer, a good friend and a mentor, who has done a lot to advance this art in my opinion. Let's try to make 2005 the year we put aside all of our petty differences and name calling, and really work to promote this art to the next level.
Best regards, Tony Parisi
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Jan 2, 2005 11:16AM)
Tony,,,,the voice of sanity,,,,,,,,Ken applauds clap,clap,clap
I couldn`t agree more.
PS Come on now,all of you,give your uncle Ken a big kiss and then lets work together as Tony said,to a better future (No tongues please!!).
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 11:29AM)
LOL ok Gives Uncle Ken a Kiss ( Hersheys Kiss that is ) and hopes he enjoys it.
Message: Posted by: RJE (Jan 2, 2005 11:37AM)
No worries about any tongues here, too cold and it would get shtuck, ooh dhrats, dhone hit agin'
Message: Posted by: WEASEL DANDAW (Jan 2, 2005 12:27PM)
Mr Silmser,

I for one have video evidence of Steve Santini's jail escapes and can verify there authenticity. I for one would love to be able to do a jail escape from a museum or somewhere like the London Dungeon (if this would be regarded as a theme park), as in the U.K. there are very few places to do an escape like this. What police force or prison nowadays wants to let someone publicly prove they can escape from a cell in use for holding prisoners. If they did, the methods would be captured for all to see on C.C.T.V. Do we really want this?

As I said earlier I can authenticate Mr Santini's Jail escapes as I have the evidence. To me he has helped our art in a vast way.

Weasel Dandaw......Dan to my friends.
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 12:53PM)
We Need People like Mr. Santini Back and all the others who were Decent here.
Message: Posted by: KingStardog (Jan 2, 2005 12:53PM)
Yes.....agreed.... these are the types of folks that stir, then back down when they get asked to play. They would rather throw crumpled paper cups onto the feild and shout obcenities from the stands, knowing they are not good enough to play. that's fine every week stadiums around the world are full of them....the internet is no different.

Time to interact in a positive manner, and accept these people for what they are, brand them as rowdy sports fans, and move on.
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 12:55PM)
KSD can we actully Brand Them :)

Three Cheers that the arguing is Finally Over. and Passes out Champagne to evreyone that is of age.
Message: Posted by: SANTINI (Jan 2, 2005 08:11PM)
Richard and the other minons of mistruth...

The thing many people here simply do not care to take a look at is FACTS. On one hand we have one guy saying his facts are the "facts", the other says his are true, and the others, who either are not experienced enough or are foolish enough to follow the rumour mogers go and take what they are told at face value.

And many here wonder why the so called 'art" of escape has not evolved in 100 years!

I have always found it higly amusing that many out there decry what I have done and yet present similiar escapes using thier own props and gear, etc.

Does this mean we are all to engae in campaigns of exposure?

My gosh, there is even a supplier for props to those without enough original imagination and with enough money.

In closing, I will state that the only REAL reason I **** so many people off is because I am one of those who does things his own imaginative way without the need of suppliers or mass production.

It is very interesting, for any who are balanced enough to bother to look, that when the "great" Norm Bigelow was of the opinion I was his "friend", he went to great lengths to proclaim that what I did was very fine indeed.

Some time later, when Norm at last grew weary of all the crap levelled at him for supporting me, he jumped ship and proclaimed I was all B.S.

The same goes for so many here in this very place.

Until the "pressure" gets to them that is.

Personally, I could not care less.

Time and time again many here on this board have shown that they care very little about what is real and instead would choose to follow the has-beens, the never weres, or the bitter they never became anything.

The way I see it, if someone, or anyone, is stupid and foolish enough to follow the comments and opinions of others who in fact have had very little personal experience with either me or my career and instead trade in garbage, then the followers deserve whatever fate awaits.

This is not about ego. For that matter, I am quoted many times on this board as saying I do not feel I am the "greatest", I do not want myself to be thought of that way, etc.

In short, I want no followers.

Even if they were offered on a silver platter.

There are however those who do. Desperately.

And, they will do anything to gain same. Slander, lies, and cheating notwithstanding.

If you do not wish to take my word for it, just look back through previous posts. And not just those concerning me. Others too.

I am indeed happy I have been able to help some here and I am also glad there are those who could put to use some advice I have shared.

As for some of the negative others, I have a prediction...

You will all still be here months and years to come complaining about this performer or that performer or this prop or that and without going your own way and blazing new trails.

And, what will come of this all?

Nothing.

As for me, I personally have better things to do. Like preparing the show my management firm and I will launch this spring.

Keep on spinning junk people.

If not about me then about others. It certainly seems to be what many people here in this thread do so very well.

No matter what it does to me I can assure you it will avail you not.

If someone, anyone, were to take a look here in the all tied up thread what sort of impression would they leave with? Certainly a sad and pathetic one.

And, who is really to blame and who really comes off looking bad? The ones who do their own thing or the ones who miss no chance to try and tear them down?

The answer is obvious.

Steve Santini
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 2, 2005 08:20PM)
Applauds :applause:
Message: Posted by: cat weasel (Jan 2, 2005 08:48PM)
Santini you have also said your were not posting any more on the Café but do and please check out this thread "Tired of the constant bickering"
Message: Posted by: Scott Xavier (Jan 2, 2005 10:38PM)
Steve, why defend yourself? You have nothing to prove.

Dunninger was a man who was a bully! he pressured people into answering the way he wanted. He used "gimmicks" like a modified TT to accomplish a book test. There we're SEVERAL gimmicks that he made that are just now being rediscovered. Sort of like the Santini gimmicks that are being rediscovered and ripped off via people who read his manuscripts. Is this wrong? Its for you to decide. We learn from individuals and advance in our art, sometimes we surpass or rather get to their level. I'm sure even Ian has learned something about escaping from Steves manuscripts and his life. Im sure Rick, you too have learned something about escapes from him. So why hate? Please if you have a problem handle it like men, on the phone or an old fashioned butt whooping. Not like catty little girls.

Steve, you really didn't need to comment above. Your image will stand for itself. Are you performing for Ian, Rick, and the rest of us? Or are you performing for the laymen of the world?

I have seen you perform hypnosis at a college, escpae a regulation straight jacket over 40 feet in the air, and even perform on stage with death defying and some funny routines. Your work explains how to gimmick cuffs, escape regulation restraints, and much more. Like Picasso some times we don't value that which is in front of us until......


If Steve is at fault for escaping museums and other medium that's at his disposal, then so be it. What jail on the planet would let him escape it? NONE! The risk to tax payers and the possibility of tax payers revolting over such a catastrophe would be un believable! Could you imagine the feeling of unsecurity if a MAGICIAN could escape a real prison?

Dunninger lied and cheated his whole life was a scam. The fact that he bullied individuals into agreeing with him, the use of gimmicks, and his own works of publication prove that. I think it was called Dunningers Brain Busters in which he flat our lies and states that what he does is "tunes in brain waves, such as a radio tunes in radio waves". that's right there makes him a lier and a cheat. But I still respect the man. He was a very powerful man, Im sure he had enemies. People are angry and emotion filled, get over it.

May you all leave the house and perform so that you wont have time to bicker...

- The Great Scott "Dr. Z"
Message: Posted by: The Donster (Jan 3, 2005 12:27AM)
Yes it is it's time to change the subject and to turn over a new leaf. its a new year time to forgive and forget.
Message: Posted by: Kondini (Jan 3, 2005 04:06AM)
To kill others character through this medium is what all this is about.Testosterone gone mad.

Lets get real,,,,,if anyone crosses me in a pro capacity to retaliate would result in the guy who was better with words than me,winning!!! Ok so I have been beaten on paper,,,,does that mean that the more literate are better ea`s,,,,,crap.

So looking at the past posts,,,,,where the heck are you lot from???? If you have a gripe regarding,theft or being ripped off, then surely you as "Men" would do what the rest of the world would do,,,you would take your "proof" down to your local Solicitor who would take your beef through the Courts (This is what we all pay Taxes for) Then a Jury of others would decide who was right and who was wronged !!

This would be dealt with as grownups, on a private enforceable basis,,,,in a manly way.
So do you all really get such a kick out of seeing your names in print !!!! You must be B***** desperate,,,,I had a problem not as overgrown as this co`s it was dealt with behind the scenes,,,so please do likewise and keep your dirty linen behind closed doors where it belongs.Or better still put your money where your mouth is and sort it out once and for all.