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Topic: The Bat vs. The M5..... Which is better???
Message: Posted by: whizzomagic (Oct 16, 2004 03:38PM)
I'm interested in purchasing one or the other. Can anyone explain the difference between the two, or if one is much better than the other, and if so, why? I can get "The Bat" at a local magic shop for under $40, but the "M5" is available online at ellusionist.com for just under $100. Any help and or tips on purchasing and using the item(s) will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Message: Posted by: dynamiteassasin (Oct 17, 2004 02:50AM)
Go for the M5. The Bat is just like the Raven with a few differences. Although I don't own either, as the specifications of the M5 state, it has more possibilities than the M5.
You might also want to check the Raven X2 if you prefer the Bat, it's better. :)
Message: Posted by: DamienT98 (Oct 17, 2004 03:21PM)
Certainly consider the raven. I've heard its better than the Bat. I have the Raven x2. I like it.
Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 17, 2004 03:44PM)
The m5 is "stronger" then the Bat.
Message: Posted by: ShidennOdmistL (Oct 17, 2004 05:15PM)
Well, considering the pricing for the package you get with the M5, it's not a bad investment. I mean, from the looks of it, it's like a souped up version of a Raven on steroids. It looks good and I would buy it if I had the money.

I went to one of my local magic shops and asked for a demonstration of The Bat. One of the clerks used it, he showed me how it worked, the gimmick and all, the tricks, and how to present it. Not only that, he did it in a clumsy fashion. After seeing that, I'd opt for a Raven then Bat. That and the guy broke so many rules in magic, I really didn't want to buy it. Poor guy.

Message: Posted by: Kayo_City (Oct 18, 2004 06:52AM)
The M5 is really powerful!
But it is absolutely massive.

Its like a big brick!

Its difficult to conceal due to the size. It's a monster!

The Bat is really small and easy to conceal!

It's only my opinion but "Get the Bat or Raven" as the only way to conceal the M5 is to dress like BC and who wants a jacket like that!
Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 19, 2004 01:12PM)
Kayo you can wear the m5 on other parts of your body. Imagine cards cutting itself or eating your food with the fork wavering. All that with the m5 on your knee!!! The Bat cannot do those things!
Message: Posted by: pamelaSimmons (Oct 19, 2004 09:05PM)
Sorry, may sound dumb but what is a Raven and a Bat? Besides the fact that one is a bird and one is a pet of Ozzy. (Love the show by the way :) )

:bear: Pamela
Message: Posted by: dynamiteassasin (Oct 20, 2004 01:16AM)
Hi Pamela!

The Raven is a utility tool that switches and vanishes things. A later model called the Bat came out resembling the Raven and it claims to do more than the Raven.
Message: Posted by: rannie (Oct 20, 2004 02:04AM)
I'm afraid the Bat came before the Raven. I've had it for over ten years now.
Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 20, 2004 01:07PM)
Yep the raven came out 1996... I think... right?
Message: Posted by: Rob Johnston (Oct 20, 2004 01:16PM)
Pamela, you may have seen David Blaine perform an effect using the Raven. It was responsible for his complete coin vanishes.

That is the best example I can think of where the Raven is used.
Message: Posted by: ShidennOdmistL (Oct 20, 2004 06:20PM)
Ya. If I wasn't mistaken, the Bat is a lot older then the Raven. However, of the Ravens, Bats, and M5, I still side with the M-5. Then again, I've yet to actually see it in magic use, even though I've heard the uses it has. The applications when brought upon by the creative mind, are incredible. I mean, who wouldn't want to move things by "thinking" or stop watches cold. I would.

FYI, the Raven isn't a bad investment either. It's just kind of awkward to use.

Side note: Is there any good training DVDs for the Raven?

Message: Posted by: imagine (Oct 20, 2004 06:41PM)
You can buy the DVDs on these sites. I havn't used these sites myself.

http://www.penguinmagic.com (American I believe)

http://www.magictricks.co.uk (uk)
Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 20, 2004 08:09PM)
The m5 can do all the tricks the Raven and Bat can do. It has enough power to do table work with the m5 on your knee. The Bat and Raven cannot do that.
Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 21, 2004 01:21PM)
Yeah, but for the m5 you get every thing you need, plus a coin.
Message: Posted by: k (Oct 21, 2004 03:42PM)
Ha! Ha! Nice, I didn't know that. A Coin?
Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 21, 2004 04:43PM)
A coin is placed in the spectator's hand and you cause it to flip by itself!
Very cool.
Message: Posted by: k (Oct 21, 2004 05:34PM)
I thought so too. A cool mentalism trick would be to play with the spectator's mind, telling him how heavy the coin feels, then how light it becomes.

Then, by controlling the speed (very, very slow motions) and the angle of the M5, you can cause the coin not to flip, but lift itself and move around the spec hand!!! Then you just make it disappear.
Message: Posted by: ShidennOdmistL (Oct 21, 2004 08:45PM)
LOL. If someone here did that, just out of nowhere, and even let the spectator test if there were any strings, man, would they freak! Hehe, that would be quite an effect. However, would the angle adjustments be tricky at all?

Message: Posted by: pamelaSimmons (Oct 21, 2004 11:47PM)
Thanks everybody! :)
Wow, all the complicated talk and history. You guys know your stuff and are very "magic" smart. :)

Like a magic library. You guys are too good.
Message: Posted by: k (Oct 22, 2004 07:49AM)

You only need practice as the movement of your arm (wrist) has to be very gentle. When you achieve just lifting the coin, by just approaching your hand below it, then the tricky part is to make it slide without flipping it. Try on your own hands first, you'll have a feel of which angle and speed (again very very slow, and even slower)speed is what makes it move, you control the height of the coin with angles. It works best on slippery hands. And yes, they all just freak out. You have to tell the spectator to hold his hand still also.
Message: Posted by: ShidennOdmistL (Oct 22, 2004 03:54PM)
Hmmm k, makes sense enough. Too bad I don't own an M-5. I have the original Raven but I need to wear two shirts for it. Dern. Oh well, I guess it's not that much of a hassle. But still....

Well, we all know that the Raven is known for its vanishes and its extra clean close; however, is the M-5 (I know, dumb question coming) just as clean? I mean, I know you can move stuff, stop time, and vanish things, but is it really as clean, or maybe cleaner, then the Raven?

Message: Posted by: matite (Oct 24, 2004 10:20AM)
I have the Raven and it is a very good effect. If you get some stretchy skin coloured bandage you can wrap it around your chest under your shirt, attach the Raven to it and then you only need to wear one shirt. This also means that your shirt won't move as you do the work. On the instructions for The Raven it says "Copyright 1994-2000 Chazpro Magic".

I also have The Raven X2 and I find while it is good for switching things it is a little big to conceal. It's twice as long as the Raven. On the instructions for The Raven X2 it says "Copyright 2003 Chazpro Magic".

Finally, I own The Bat and it is about the same size as the Raven. It is very strong magnet and comes with two brass rings and a coin. On the instructions for The Bat it says "Copyright 1994 Chazpro".

Of the three I would say the Raven is the best. If you do it with the open hand move from the spectator's hand it is an absolute killer!

I can't offer any opinion on the M5 other than my friend has one and it came with more props than the Bat.
Message: Posted by: ShidennOdmistL (Oct 24, 2004 02:25PM)
I hope to get a M-5 someday. Unlike the Raven, I get the idea that the M-5 is a lot more compact to use, hence, it can be used more freely than the Raven.

Message: Posted by: blade (Oct 24, 2004 03:03PM)
You cannot LEVITATE the coin. The laws of nature does not permit it. A levitation like that would need an "extra" ingredient. You need something to stabilize it. Curious? PM me. The closest thing to levitating the coin is balancing it vertically before it flips.
Message: Posted by: eize (Oct 24, 2004 04:51PM)
I do not have the Raven , but the M5 is very good.
Message: Posted by: k (Oct 24, 2004 05:09PM)
On 2004-10-24 16:03, blade wrote:
You cannot LEVITATE the coin. The laws of nature does not permit it. A levitation like that would need an "extra" ingredient. You need something to stabilize it. Curious? PM me. The closest thing to levitating the coin is balancing it vertically before it flips.
Are you talking to me?
[b]Are you talkin' to me???[/b] (taxi driver)

I never said it levitated and by "lift itself" I meant on its side. It moves around the hand at 70 or less (usually no more than 30, 70 is REALLY tricky) and you can also make a copper coin roll on it's edge.

PM me if you wish to discuss the topics and routine.