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Topic: What is the BEST chop cup routine?
Message: Posted by: whizzomagic (Oct 23, 2004 12:04PM)
I only know the basic routine with my chop cups and would like to know where to look to find an absolute killer routine!!! Thanks!
Message: Posted by: Clarioneer (Oct 23, 2004 12:14PM)
Someone left a link (you will need to scratch around) of Don Alan showing his routine to two presenters on a TV show - he used the most beat up cup you have seen in your life. His whole routine was magical - seems to me it's the presentation that makes it killer - his routine performed by him killed me, the presenters and I'm sure everyone else that watched the show... nothing fancy no wierd loads just his pure chop cup routine performed by a professional entertainer...
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Oct 23, 2004 01:56PM)
I agree that Don Alan had an uncanny ability to present an uncluttered plot, which in turn made his climaxes even stronger by comparison.
Message: Posted by: rikbrooks (Oct 23, 2004 05:34PM)
I have his routine using real player. If you want it pm me and I'll figure a way to get it to you. It's his performance on "That's Incredible" from, I think, the 70's. You should see Kathy Lee come out of her chair on the final load.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 24, 2004 12:17AM)
There is no such thing as the BEST routine. That's like the BEST cold drink, the BEST sandwich, the BEST pencil. So much of it depends on your presentation.

I like the Don Alan routine, because it is simple and gets right to the punch line. It is an excellent place to start, and it doesn't hurt to stop there, either.

There is an economy of movement and patter and a wealth of magic.
Message: Posted by: rikbrooks (Oct 24, 2004 09:20AM)
My routine is INSPIRED by Don Allen. You can see a lot of his influence in it. I kept verbatim the line where he has the spectator put the ball in the cup then take it out then put it back and then he says, "Isn't that fun?"

I've added a few things as a result of talking with other magicians at SAM meetings. I have a good one where I cover the palm with a silk and put the cup on top of that. I then lift the cup and it's penetrated underneath the silk to the palm of my hand.

I'm still working on adding the raven so I can vanish the ball from a spec's hand and it appears under the cup. Of course I can do the move, but I'm playing with where to insert it in the routine.
Message: Posted by: eddieloughran (Oct 24, 2004 12:03PM)
The routine which gets the best result for me uses an ordinary mug and a borrowed £5 note.
It returns under the cup a couple of times and then changes to a couple of pieces of fruit.
Don't forget to replace the money from your wallet of course !
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Oct 24, 2004 02:51PM)
Their are three routines that spring to mind. David Roth's chop cup routine. I have used it for years.

Don Alan's routine...

And Larry Jennings routine. This routine is very good and has a great way to load at the end that is a lesson in magic by it's self...

I hope this helps...
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Oct 24, 2004 03:09PM)
Videoclips of Don Alan should still be available:
http://members.tripod.com/vidaccess/
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Oct 24, 2004 03:17PM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-24 15:51, bishthemagish wrote:


And Larry Jennings routine. This routine is very good and has a great way to load at the end that is a lesson in magic by it's self...


[/quote]

Agreed on Jennings' final load. Definitely a milestone in cup magic.
Message: Posted by: geemack (Oct 24, 2004 03:44PM)
You can buy a print copy of the Don Alan Chop Cup Routine here...

http://www.rnt2.com/product.aspx?productno=10

Greg
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 24, 2004 04:07PM)
I should add that I used the Don Alan routine as the starting point of my routine as well.

I just added my own lines and loads.

The Jennings routine is in the Larry Jennings book, if I remember correctly.
Message: Posted by: Mitch Schneiter (Oct 24, 2004 04:14PM)
Can anyone tell me where Roth's chop cup routine can be found? I'd like to see his take on it.
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Oct 24, 2004 04:51PM)
The Jenning's routine, btw, is pretty much a creation of Ron Wilson.
Message: Posted by: Michael Baker (Oct 24, 2004 04:54PM)
Isn't that in Ron Wilson's book?
Message: Posted by: rikbrooks (Oct 24, 2004 06:25PM)
What is the basic chop cup routine?
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Oct 24, 2004 06:27PM)
David Roth's routine can be found is his first set of lecture notes from back in 1976.
Message: Posted by: Mitch Schneiter (Oct 24, 2004 08:41PM)
Thanks Jonathan. Now the hard part will be trying to track down a copy.
Michael, Ron's chop cup routine "The Uncanny Chop Cup" is in the book "The Uncanny Scot - Ron Wilson" by Richard Kaufman. It's a very clever and unique routine. In the intro to the effect it says that Ron Wilson and Larry Jennings brainstormed together with the chop cup on numerous occasions and that Larry first published his routine in Genii back in 1965. The first time Ron's routine was in print was in the 1987 book.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Oct 25, 2004 06:01AM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-24 19:27, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
David Roth's routine can be found is his first set of lecture notes from back in 1976.
[/quote]Well, (harhar :) ) I do have them..but stuffed away as so much of these *smal* pamplets.. :(...can be difficult to keep track of so many *a few pages only* papers.. :(

[quote]
On 2004-10-24 19:25, rikbrooks wrote:
What is the basic chop cup routine?
[/quote]????
You have a cup, you have a ball..and strange and hopefully entertaining magic happens! :)

Well, the basic Chop Cup routine is, that a ball is placed into the cup, cup turned upside down, so the ball is catched in YOUR hand, placed in your pocket and the *poor* spec has to guess, weather the ball is in your pocket or under the cup..
This happens a FEW (hopefully FEW!!!!!!!!!!!)times, then much to (hopefully) the specs surprise, one or 2 -after each other- LARGE balls appear under the cup.

Larry Jennings routine normally starts by producing the cup (done seated at a table) and he also does use a single load of a large ball at the end of his routine, very clevery covered by handling a silk used during the routine..IIRC he also does use a shotglass, TBH, that I can't remember...

It was first printed in Genii with action fotos and IS in his book
*The classical Magic of Larry Jennings*.

The final load is very clever, but some ppl -incl. me - didn't like the lenght of the routine, with the silk, shotglasss, additional props aso...though the silk/large ball load is a clever one..
It is also in Larry Jennings lecture video from Pierre Meyer of France (IIRC)..

Anybody ALSO should study -at least- that routine, because of the clever thinking behind it!!!
PS. Mark Wilson has a book re the basic Chop Cup handling out, ALSO containing Earl Nelsons routineis in there..well worth to own..there are a lot of other books out, amongst them one from Morissey, who also does sell very nice cups!
Ken Brooke has published (and sold the Don Alan Cup)his handling, aslo using a shotglass and a silk..
I DO the chop cup, but don't use any of the published routines as is..so should you.. :)
And that is not, because none of them is good enough, that is solely because a routine isn't ever to ones own liking -and becomes second nature-unless it is altered to ones own handling and liking of stuff.

In the end the specs have to verify, weather one did a good job or not..
Message: Posted by: Keith Raygor (Oct 25, 2004 10:10PM)
Larry Jennings' chop cup routine can also be found on page 149 of James Swain's book "21st Century Card Magic". It's the last item in the book and is entitled Larry Jennings' Famous Chop Cup Routine.

I learned this routine about 28 years ago from a magic shop owner named Gil in Witchita, KS. I'll never forget the magic that the shotglass and silk brought to it.
Message: Posted by: Al Kazam the Magic Man (Oct 26, 2004 02:31AM)
I was able to get a video of Brad Burt's chop cup routine. The gambling premise. Very quick and able to be done surrounded wearing a jacket.

Anyone got any thoughts on his routine?

JoJo
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Oct 26, 2004 03:07PM)
What Larry did was basically Ron Wilson's routine. I used it for years. The use of a silk to cover the final load was from Bob Stencel of Detroit (where both Ron and Larry met).

I saw Wilson do this dozens of times for laymen and it is a solid, easy to do routine.

Don Alan's is more rock 'em and sock 'em and gets to the finish quickly.

A whole new way is coming from Biro/Porper == stay tooned... :kermit:
Message: Posted by: PaulGreen (Oct 26, 2004 08:50PM)
In the interim (between now and when Biro/Porper release their stuff), if you can find THE ZODIAC CHOP CUP routine, you will have one heck of a piece of theater. I have done the Wilson (Ron), Alan (Don), Jenninings (Larry), Roth (David), and my own routines over the years. THE ZODIAC routine is the best!

Good luck in finding it.

Regards,

Paul (enjoy the search, it's worth it) Green
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 27, 2004 12:53AM)
Paul. That's it?
No hints? :(


While I'm searching the net for the zodaic routine, I'll throw in John Bannon's routine. It it the best I've seen so far.

Even if you don't do it, the loading, gag loads, etc are very very well tought out. And the patter has nothing to do with 'where's the ball'

It is an awesome routine.
From Impossibilia
Message: Posted by: Andy Charlton (Oct 27, 2004 07:31AM)
Best I've Seen.

Paul Daniels.

Saw him live loads of times, Brilliant Routine.

He's just released "Paul daniels, Live in Edinburgh." Not seen it yet. (Xmas present From My Dad.)(I'm 45 by the way!) He has, says all paul's best stuff is on there, Chop Cup, Electric chairs Etc.

Andy
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 27, 2004 10:10AM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-26 21:50, PaulGreen wrote:
In the interim (between now and when Biro/Porper release their stuff), if you can find THE ZODIAC CHOP CUP routine, you will have one heck of a piece of theater. I have done the Wilson (Ron), Alan (Don), Jenninings (Larry), Roth (David), and my own routines over the years. THE ZODIAC routine is the best!

Good luck in finding it.

Regards,

Paul (enjoy the search, it's worth it) Green
[/quote]

Any hints?

I know, it's not in Tarbell.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Oct 27, 2004 10:52AM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-27 11:10, Bill Palmer wrote:
I know, it's not in Tarbell.
[/quote]Hmmmm, also I'm satisfied in what I do (one never should though be!!!) I'm still curious re the Zodiac handling, a netsearch didn't reveal anything and stressing the -not that bad - memory, didn't reveal anything either :(

Well, maybe we should twist Pauls neck a bit :) re a tiny tip..more then a tiny tip isn't needed :)
Message: Posted by: trickster2000 (Oct 27, 2004 09:28PM)
Bob King has a really good routine... he ends with a shot of liquor.... it has some colour changes along the way... he has a site, but I don't know the url.
Message: Posted by: dlcmagic (Oct 27, 2004 10:01PM)
Don Alan's routine is good magic.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 27, 2004 10:16PM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-27 22:28, trickster2000 wrote:
Bob King has a really good routine... he ends with a shot of liquor.... it has some colour changes along the way... he has a site, but I don't know the url.
[/quote]

I hate to sound like a grumpy old man, but I'm going to. It took me less than 10 seconds to find his URL by entering "Bob King magic" in the search window on Google.

http://members.aol.com/bkingmagic/index.htm?f=fs
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Oct 28, 2004 02:24AM)
Yes Bill, but the Zodiac is pretty well hidden, IF it's on the net..
Message: Posted by: Joshua Lozoff (Oct 28, 2004 02:37PM)
Any opinions on Paul Wilson's chop cup routine at the end of his restaurant act video?
Message: Posted by: Mike Walton (Oct 28, 2004 04:55PM)
Agree with the recommendation for Bannon's routine from the book Impossibilia. It's surprising, well thought out and not a "gotcha" routine. It's just good magic.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 28, 2004 04:59PM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-28 03:24, Werner G. Seitz wrote:
Yes Bill, but the Zodiac is pretty well hidden, IF it's on the net..
[/quote]

I'm not complaining about that one.
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Oct 29, 2004 02:59AM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-28 17:59, Bill Palmer wrote:
I'm not complaining about that one.
[/quote] :)
Message: Posted by: TheAmbitiousCard (Oct 29, 2004 03:17AM)
[quote]
On 2004-10-28 15:37, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
Any opinions on Paul Wilson's chop cup routine at the end of his restaurant act video?
[/quote]

It's not bad. I like the cup.
Pretty standard faire.

I liked the line about "taking tablets".
Message: Posted by: HGM (Dec 8, 2004 12:39PM)
Been looking for the zodiac routine and I have NOT found it it is very weel hidden I hope it is a very good routine if I ever find it.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Dec 9, 2004 09:28PM)
Is it a Trevor Lewis routine Mr. Green?
Message: Posted by: BlackShadow (Jan 1, 2005 04:57PM)
I liked the way Paul Daniels did it. If I had to say what the basics were then:

1. Don't make audience look stupid as in "I always know where the ball is and you don't." Laugh with them not at them.
2. Don't go on too long. Get to final loads quick.

Consider using another (normal) cup rather than the pocket. You can use sleights o control the regular one and the gimmick on the other to keep them guessing.
Message: Posted by: DrVG (Sep 16, 2019 10:41AM)
Paul Daniels chop cup is the routine that entertained me the most so far.
Some details about the history and the mindset in Bravura.

Anyone has played with "Chop" ?
Message: Posted by: ATXTimeLord (Sep 17, 2019 02:58AM)
The Larry Jennings chop cup routine is also on the World's Greatest Magic - Chop Cups dvd/downloads.

My favorite routine to watch is Don Alan's performance here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owxXuRhvxUA

The look of joy and astonishment from the observer is fun to watch. That's what we should all strive to achieve.

mG
Message: Posted by: funsway (Sep 17, 2019 06:19AM)
Magic routines employing a container and small object were popular and astonishing long before AL Wheatley made the sleights simpler with a magnet.
With this simplicity, however, there seems to have also come a stagnation of creativity with many just wanting to copy a known routine.

Then the idea of a weird final load crept in with challenge of concealing lemons in one's shorts.

Perhaps what one should "strive to achieve" is something less repetitive and boring that risks revealing method.
Yes, study the artistry and skills of polished performers - then move on to "best" for yourself and your audience of the moment.

My current favorite "one cup" routine is using a found coffee mug and a coffee creamer(s) for astonishment and joy.
No gimmicks or repeated moves - even sequences in the spectator's hands.

No video - just putting your imagination to work.
Message: Posted by: joseph (Sep 17, 2019 07:52AM)
I perform the version [url=https://youtu.be/06O46DjlvzQ?t=109]Doug Henning[/url] did on his tv
special...
Message: Posted by: David French (Sep 20, 2019 07:43AM)
Doug Henning did the Larry Jennings routine.
Message: Posted by: Dougini (Sep 22, 2019 09:24AM)
Has anyone here seen Just A Cup by Axel Hecklau? This is the BEST I have seen! It's one of the best tricks I have!

https://www.axelhecklau-shop.com/lng/en/magic-routines-tricks/just-a-cup-performance-rights-script-dvd-tools.html?language=en

Doug
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 5, 2019 01:45AM)
The best chop cup routine is the one that YOU master.
Message: Posted by: The Burnaby Kid (Oct 5, 2019 09:53AM)
Yeah, well, I'm going to try to master the Paul Daniels routine.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 7, 2019 02:09PM)
The hardest part of Paul Daniel's routine to master is his personality. I have one of the chop cups he used on a television broadcast. I got it from John Fisher.
Message: Posted by: littlethumbtip (Oct 12, 2019 04:54PM)
My vote goes for Nathan Coe Marsh’s chop cup routine revealed in his Penguin Act lecture. Nicely flowing phases and without the overt spectator “gotcha” element that weakens so much of earlier chop cup routines.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Oct 13, 2019 01:39AM)
The impact of any part of ANY magic routine depends entirely upon the ability of the performer to convey a sense of "magic" to the audience. Sometimes a spectator "gotcha" is appropriate, but it shouldn't be overdone.
Message: Posted by: Mad Jake (Oct 26, 2019 07:59PM)
There are 3 routines I really like that I've seen.

1. Don Alan
2. Larry Jennings
3. Richard Mendez In Your Face routine

There are many good routines out there, you can watch YouTube for hours on end. But the best routine you can do is your own.
Message: Posted by: TheGladsomeBeast (Nov 2, 2019 09:47PM)
My favorite will always be Paul Daniels routine 😊, first that I saw and even after all the routines I have seen since this in my opinion stills stands above the rest. RIP
Message: Posted by: Zauberman (Nov 3, 2019 01:46PM)
[quote]On Sep 22, 2019, Dougini wrote:
Has anyone here seen Just A Cup by Axel Hecklau? This is the BEST I have seen! It's one of the best tricks I have!

https://www.axelhecklau-shop.com/lng/en/magic-routines-tricks/just-a-cup-performance-rights-script-dvd-tools.html?language=en

Doug [/quote]

I second Doug's post. Hecklau's cup certainly has the most possibilities as you can show the cup empty, there's no hard setting down the cup, and you have so much control over when and if you want the ball(dice) to disappear or re-appear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BMDiZICYa8

.