(Close Window)
Topic: Starting the Three Shell Game- help
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 2, 2005 09:05PM)
Hi all,
I'd like to start getting into the Three Shell Game "stuff." I'm lazy, so don't even bother giving me the "do a search" thing; no, if that is the best thing, ok, you can tell me, lol. I'm not going to gamble, strictly for having fun performing magic for friends/family, possibly some stuff for Junior Night at the Castle.

Anyway, tips like what shells to get, what books/Dvds, all that would be great.

I have heard a lot about the S4S shells, and I think I might get their Street Shells, they seem nice. Or should I get the Magnetic ones?

All this would help
Thanks guys,
Rmax Goodwin
Message: Posted by: Jim Wilder (Jan 2, 2005 09:19PM)
Yes, the search may prove to be a worthwhile venture. Much information is covered on the very things you've asked about.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 2, 2005 09:37PM)
Jack Chanin has a book by the name of "Encyclopedia of the Three Shell Game." Is it any good? I know HE is, but still... And is it good for someone JUST, JUST beggining? And, Is it even being sold anymore?

Rmax
Message: Posted by: Ignore me... (Jan 2, 2005 09:42PM)
At least he was honest enough to say that his question didn't matter enough to him to do a search, so we didn't have to spend time caring enough to answer! *laugh*
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Jan 2, 2005 10:16PM)
Hey Magicmaven I suggest that since you live in LA I would use the Café and the Magic Castle and try to get to know Whit Haydn. He performs at the Magic Castle and is one of the men to know when talking the shell game and three card monte... Whit Haydn is one of the people that also runs the School for Scoundrels and they sometimes have classes that are done right in the Magic Castle...

That class is HIGHLY RECOMENDED...

Check out the school for s web site and that is a great place for the latest books and DVD's on the subject of the shell game. A new one should be coming out this year...

If you like a soft pea and a close up mat check out my web site and the video I have on it... Just click the link below. The video might give you a few ideas...

I use the copper shells from the school for s I like them a lot and they dress up the effect for formal shows... But the effect can be done with bottle caps, thimbles and there are many sets on the market some are good and some are not...

But the S4S sets are all very good and will hold up when doing show after show after show...

As far as routines my stuff is good but it is out of stock and out of print. Also there is a good routine in one of the books Routined Manipulation by Lewis Ganson... Gary Ollett had a routine out called supershells... Frank Garcia had a book called all in a nut shell...

The routine is more important than the props you use but if you are performing I still feel that it is good to have good props... This is one of those routines that the audience members want to pick the shell. And it can be done only if you do it in a nice way...

Also one last tip - don't make the routine to long...

I hope this helps...
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 2, 2005 10:31PM)
I saw Whit on wednesday, yeah, he is fantastic, though I didn't see him doing the 3 sehll game. I posted a whole thread about him being a genius (it's in the Card section)

I think I am going to get "Absolutely Nuts," by Bob Sheets, I think it is a good starting point, but what do I know? Diversion for the 3 shell and Pea Game seems nice, by Dusty Johnson.

Whit is putting out a DVD w/ Bob Sheets, and it is a introduction to the 3shell game. I hear it will by at Hollywood Magic at the end of the month. There is a good chance I'll get that too. (Correct me if I'm Wrong Whit)

But currently I am looking for some simple book that will show me the basic slieghts, patterns, JUST THE BASSICS, no long routine necessary. It could even be just a pamphlet- any ideas?

Thanks,
Rmax Goodwin
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 2, 2005 11:43PM)
Rmax--good to meet you the other night at the Castle. I am sorry you missed the shell game, I was using it in most of the shows last week using our new solid silver shells.

The Chanin book was published in 1934 and is long out of print, but very good.

The best reasonably priced book available is the Tom Osborne book called "The Shell Game" edited by Ralph Read and published by Kanter's--seven bucks in most magic shops or from S4S. It is not easy to read, but it has great stuff.

Chanin, Osborne, and Eddie Joseph are the three most seminal writers on the shells, and each has a different way of looking at the work. Only the Osborne book is readily available however, and it is published now without his name on it for some reason. Look for the name Ralp Read as editor. That is the same book.

Bob Kohler's video "The Golden Shells" is a good introductory routine, as is Ouellet's "SuperShells" routine. Eric De Camps also has a wonderful, very advanced routine in his lecture notes.

The "Introduction to the Shell Game" from S4S by Bob Sheets and myself is finished and will be available this month. It is the best guide available for the shell game, and I would grab it, for sure. It is more than an intro, it is a complete new system for the shells, with a beginning routine and patter and all of the most important sleights and moves, with many new sleights and original ideas that create a whole new way of approaching the shells.

I would start with a simple set of shells, like the Street Shells. The magnets are great, but can be a distraction when you are just learning. Whatever shells you get, I highly recommend the S4S "Perfect Pea." They make learning and working the shells much easier.

Good luck!
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 2, 2005 11:52PM)
Thanks Glen, and Whit,

I think I am going to get the Tom Osborne book- that way I'll read through that, get the feel of the slieghts (only $7 too)... then in a month or so I'll pick up your new DVD, and move on from their.

I hear Chanin is REALly great. I'll ask Jeff Thomas (manager at Hollywood Magic) if he has a copy his book, maybe he'll lend it to me.


(oh, and I did do a search, and got a couple resources-- lol!)
Thanks again,
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Jan 3, 2005 03:52AM)
Whit,

Got the Street Shell and Tom Osborne book from Chef for Christmas..Nice!

Have you fixed the Price of the DVD yet?

Howard
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 3, 2005 12:04PM)
$35
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Jan 3, 2005 12:07PM)
That's fine thanks..I hope it is Multiregion?

Howard
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 3, 2005 01:13PM)
Yes.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 3, 2005 08:21PM)
How many Dvd's are you guys planning on having in the Shell game Series, Whit? Is each one going to build on the previous one?

Rmax
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 3, 2005 08:34PM)
There will be at least three, and possibly more. Each will build on the previous ones.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Jan 4, 2005 10:50PM)
Your welcome Magicmaven... I can't stress enough to do the routine in a nice way... And not make the routine to long. Pick moves that have surprises for the audience and of course a punch ending...

As with the cups and balls and other effects you can also use other props in a pinch. I had my close up case stolden years ago with my shell game. I got a call for a show. So I used bottle caps for a while... The audience didn't know the difference because it is the routine and the entertainment that is important...

I have seen people do it with thimbles on the streets... Take your time and work things out...

One of the reasons I like a sponge pea is that you can cut it large and use larger shells and it can be seen from a long distance away when playing to bigger tables. And using yellow or white soft spong it can help in restaurants with bad lighting...

Just a few things to think about... Good luck with your routine...
Message: Posted by: Karl Miller (Jan 5, 2005 02:43PM)
I got a little sneak peak at the new SFS Shell Game DVD at Dean Dill's place last week, and it is fantastic. Bob and Whit have put together a top quality product that teaches the basics and THE most cutting-edge material available for the shell game. You guys should not pass this up when it comes out!
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 5, 2005 02:57PM)
Thanks, Karl. Glad you liked it.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 5, 2005 07:12PM)
So the end of the month it will be at hollywood magic, right Whit?
And I don't need to know anything about the shell game, right?
Rmax
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 5, 2005 09:57PM)
Should be. Depends on the duplicator and wholesaler.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 5, 2005 10:21PM)
Thanks.
Message: Posted by: Bill Wells (Jan 5, 2005 11:56PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-03 00:43, whithaydn wrote:

The "Introduction to the Shell Game" from S4S by Bob Sheets and myself is finished and will be available this month. It is the best guide available for the shell game, and I would grab it, for sure. It is more than an intro, it is a complete new system for the shells, with a beginning routine and patter and all of the most important sleights and moves, with many new sleights and original ideas that create a whole new way of approaching the shells.

[/quote]

Whit -

Fabulous!! At long last! I take it this is a DVD. Are you releasing the information in book form as well? Finally, are you guys going to be selling the new items at the World Magic Seminar in Vegas next month or do I have to order it from you. If you have done for the shell game what you did for Three Card Monte, this will be an instant classic!

Bill
Message: Posted by: ursusminor (Jan 6, 2005 12:31AM)
Full support to the gentleman above!

I would also love to have a book on the shells from sfs, like the GREAT one on the monte! I have nothing against DVDs, mind you, and I'll probably buy them too!
But nothing beats a book, more space for background & history, which is just as interesting, and can be used as a basis for a presentation.
So I eagerly await the book...

Bjørn
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 6, 2005 12:53AM)
This is the first in a series of DVD's on the shell game. It is the "School for Scoundrels Shell Game Series Volume I." This first volume is called "An Introduction to the Shell Game," but it is much more than that.

Over an hour of video, and over 80 pages of .pdf files are contained on the DVD.

Bob Sheets and I teach the all the major sleights and concepts that will form the basis for a whole new system for the shell game, and a whole new way of looking at the shells. This video contains a lot of unpublished, original material on the shells, created by Chef Anton, Bob Sheets and myself. New moves, maneuvers, ruses and subtleties. These form the basis for our system which is unique and unassailable.

Following videos will explore the system further, showing the different ways it can be used and unfolding the many possibilities. The Sheets Stack and the Sharper pen will be part of the incredible new gimmicks that will carry the system to its full potential.

This is stuff that has been kept very under wraps for a long time, and we believe it is the first really revolutionary work with the shells since Chanin, Osborne, and Joseph.

This is a practical oriented series put together by S4S in conjunction with Bob Sheets--not an in depth study. This series is not like the Fast and Loose and Three-Card Monte DVD's and books. It is a separate thing.

Our "Notes on the Shell Game" book and DVD are still coming, but it may be a year or so still on that. That will be the in-depth look at the game, with the history, psychology, street sense, encyclopedia of moves, dramatic re-enactments, etc., just like our Three-Card Monte dvd and book. These dvd's and books are the texts for our month long School for Scoundrels course at the Magic Castle. The one I am talking about now is totally different.

This, the "Shell Game Series" of DVD's, as opposed to the "Notes" books and accompanying dvds, is action-oriented instruction directed toward the magician/performer who does exhibition routines or wants to work several hours of just the shell game at a corporate event, casino night, or church carnival. It is the original work on the shells that has been in development for the last eight years by Bob, Chef and me.

The first dvd contains the basic moves and patter and routine for a beginning shell game. Then the "Advanced Moves" "Master Moves" and "Maneuvers" that can be layered over that starting routine are taught. When opened as a data disc, the dvd contains several manuscripts, study aids, and other information in printable .pdf format that further explain and expand on the video instruction.

The future dvds in this series will build on this foundation.
Message: Posted by: Bill Wells (Jan 6, 2005 02:05PM)
Whit -

A great approach and what should be a monumental work when completed. Thanks for the detailed response. I look forward to the entire project.

However, you didn't say if you would be selling the DVD at the World Magic Seminar next month.

Bill
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 6, 2005 03:46PM)
The S4S will not be at the World Magic Seminar. Some of the dealers may have our DVDs.
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Jan 6, 2005 03:49PM)
Whit . This question was posed some while ago.

I find my Street shells a bit slippy, what was the suggestion to help grip them?

Howard
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 6, 2005 05:57PM)
Practice and a light touch are most important.

If you continue to have problems, consider a spot of clear shellac on either side, or a spot of superglue with some grains of white sand dropped on it--this is what the street guys used to do. You will have the same problem with real walnut shells, and truthfully, it is mostly just getting used to handling the shells.

Most people I have talked to have found that it is mostly time and practice that make the difference. Holding too tightly has a tendency to make the shells want to shoot away like a pumpkin seed. Just relax and handle them lightly.
Message: Posted by: hkwiles (Jan 7, 2005 11:54AM)
Thanks for your valued comments Whit.Must admit I have only just played with the for a couple of days .

Howard
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 7, 2005 10:46PM)
The Tom Osborne book on the Three Shell game... hmm, well I couldn't find it on the S4S website. Whit, do you know where it is?

Thanks
Rmax
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 7, 2005 11:17PM)
Sure. http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/shell_game.htm It's the first book listed under books and videos.
Message: Posted by: Hank Miller (Jan 8, 2005 06:47PM)
Mr. Haydn:
Will the DVD or Book include Mr. Sheets complete patter of his 3-shell game? If it does... it will be worth whatever you are charging. But the double edge sword will be the bast-ard-izing by amatuers of his patter. On one hand... I want that patter to be documented, on the other I don't. But I guess it is something that needs to be immortalized, in print or media, so other generations can appreciate Mr. Sheet's unmatched wit and style.
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 8, 2005 07:09PM)
It contains complete introduction and patter for the routine that Bob calls his "Basic Routine." This is the routine he did for years, still does in one on one situations, and that he uses with the Scarab Beetle shells created by Black Fox. I suspect that this is the one you are talking about.

Bob has several completely different routines with different presentations. This is the introduction dvd, and the "Basic Routine" contains the story of the origin of the shells among the "ancient egyptians, 1700 BC." This patter is based on the "Dr. Henry Beaumont" routine created and published in the 70's by Doug D. Bush.
Message: Posted by: Hank Miller (Jan 8, 2005 07:24PM)
That is it. You can give the same lines from a script to numerous actors and only a very few can make you believe, and only one will win the Oscar. I think the same can be said about magicians. The tricks have been out there for years, but only a few magicians can make you believe they "might" be the real thing. Mr. Sheets is one.

-IMO
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 8, 2005 08:03PM)
What about one of your routines Whit. Anyhting strictly original from you, with the complete patter...?

Rmax
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 8, 2005 09:57PM)
You are right, Hank. Bob Sheets knows how to present. He is always a kick to watch, and more than a friend, he is one of my favorite performers.

Rmax:

Not on this one. There is a manuscript of a more advanced routine with patter by Chef Anton and me in .pdf format on this DVD. But it is a collaborative thing. Not "strictly" original.

I will be putting out my own routine and patter on one of the upcoming DVD's.
Message: Posted by: Alan Munro (Jan 9, 2005 05:38AM)
Another resource is "Karl Norman, 40 Years at the Forks". The same type of brass shells that he used may still be available from Magic Methods, for all I know. If the book is still available, I would think Magic Methods would have it.

I've seen Karl perform his routine several times.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 10, 2005 07:25PM)
I got the Osborne book- hasn't arived though.

What do you mean by .pdf files, is that on the computer...?

Thanks to all that have posted, and those to come,
Rmax
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 11, 2005 12:43PM)
If you open the dvd on a computer's dvd player, as a data disc, you have access to a collection of photos, manuscripts, study aids, etc. in .pdf format. ".pdf format" is simply Adobe's Acrobat Reader file format--a business standard. You need Acrobat Reader--a free download--to access them.
Message: Posted by: jynxtattoo (Jan 11, 2005 05:54PM)
In my opinion, if you want to learn something well, you should acquire as much material as possible on the subject. I happen to love the shell game and I own the s4s street shells as well as the la maggiore shells. I prefer the la maggiore shells simply because of their size and shape. however, the street shells have a chanin dip that really facilitates the loading and unloading of the pea. they're just not as comfortable for me as the la maggiore shells. but the s4s street shells are definitely a quality product. as far a books go on learning the true hustle....there is nothing better that I've found than tom osbournes book. I would easily pay 100 dollars for it....its that informative. and it breaks down the hustle into lessons to teach you the shells in a step by step "course". each lessons builds on the last. then it goes into what it calls "routines"... but really they are just simple layouts to build your "arsenal". my favorite part of the whole book is a move that I havent found ANYWHERE else that allows you to lift any shell 6-8 inches off the table and show nothing under it and as you bring it back to the table you load the pea under it!!!! and its extremely easy to do!! I don't know why other books or videos don't show this move??!! anyway, I see that youve already purchased the tom osbourne book (wisest choice you could make) and I hope you have the discipline to go through the lessons and routines in order and actually put in the time to learn... itll really pay off more than any video ive seen on the subject (though bob kohlers golden shells is awesome!) and I hope my little input has helped you magicmaven.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 11, 2005 07:39PM)
Thanks Whit, and Jynx!

Jynx, I can't wait to look through the book, It seems like the "Bobo" of the 3 shell game, no? I will make sure not to give up on it; I inferred from Whit that it was somewhat difficult to read, but it will be worth it if you stay with it. I can't wait to dive into some of these books/Dvds!

Rmax Goodwin
Message: Posted by: jynxtattoo (Jan 11, 2005 07:47PM)
No man...its n ot difficult at all..but you can tell it wasnt written in modern times...but I think that actually makes it more fun to read because you can almost imagine yourself being an apprentice to a real shell hustler!! I love it and wouldnt trade this book for anything...ive been reading in the forum that s4s has a dvd coming out with bob sheets. I cant wait to get it! I just got his absolutely nuts video a couple of weeks ago...good product.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 11, 2005 07:53PM)
Really? great, so it's not too difficult, cool.

And yes, the SFS are putting out a DVD serries on the 3 shell game. Whit Haydn, and Bob Sheets are in it. I too have heard fabulous things about it.

Rmax
Message: Posted by: Riley (Jan 12, 2005 02:45PM)
I second everything said about the Osborne book and "Absolutely Nuts" video by Bob Sheets. GREAT MATERIAL.

Look forward to the new stuff coming from S4S
Message: Posted by: Josh Riel (Jan 12, 2005 03:01PM)
I just remembered I had the Osborn Book. I'm going to look for it as soon as I get home. I'm thinking seriously about the Scarab shells myself.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 14, 2005 10:57PM)
I got the Osborne book. I think it can get a little confusing, but it's fine. I really love it! Although this IS the first 3 shell book/DVD I have. I think the "lessons" are fantastic; all book should be organized like this.

Rmax

I just read about that move you were talking about (the one where you pick the shell up about 6 inches, show it empty, and then load it as you return it to the table). Yeah, I think it is really cool. Within minutes, I was so anxious, I showed my mom a couple of the moves, boy did she go for the "sucker move." !!!

I got a cheap set of shells from Penguin magic.com, $10, I think they are worth about 39 cents a set, but anyway... My problem is that the shell seems to roll on the pea, and as a load/steal the pea, the shell rises off the mat. Is this a problem that I am going to have to deal with, or will this be eliminated as I grow better and better, and as I use my new "Street Shells" that I recently ordered from S4S? yeeeh, can't wait for them to arrive!

Thanks for all your help guys!
Message: Posted by: mota (Jan 17, 2005 09:43PM)
Will the DVD cover anything on using magnetic shells? Does anything else discuss it?
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 18, 2005 02:53PM)
One of the DVD's later in the series will cover the magnetic peas, magnetic shells, Sharper Pen, Sheets Stacks, droppers, "Hoo" peas, etc. This will have many uses and moves for the magnetic shells.

The first dvd in the series covers the main moves essential to the system. The second dvd will show how to use these moves together to weave the system. These two dvds will focus on normal shells and peas without any special additions.

Following dvds will expand on these first two, and include mechanical devices, magnets, and other features that can be added into the system.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 19, 2005 07:55PM)
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllll, I got my Street Shells today.

Even though I know very little about the con, I know enough to know that these are great shells. I don't find them very slippery. the shell doesn't roll at all when the pea is being loaded/stolen. Loading, and stealing the pea is SOOOOOOOOO easy! I love it. Many posted that they are very sturdy, and long lasting- but they seem fragile. Hmm. Anyway, Over the last week, I have been useing my knowledge from the Osborne book, and a set of Penguinmagic shells. I have had a lot of success when showing the "routines" from the Osborne book, to my parents. I cant wait for the SFS Dvd to come out.

A proud customer,
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 20, 2005 10:52AM)
Glad you like the Street Shells. I think that you will find that they are not as fragile as they seem. They are very sturdy, made from extremely durable resin plastic. I hope you enjoy working with them, and you will find that your study of the Osborne book will make learning from our forthcoming dvd even more enjoyable.
Message: Posted by: beyrevra (Jan 20, 2005 02:31PM)
In the “Expert Gambling Trick” Nick Trost describes the routine of Karl Norman. It is not difficult to present and it is pleasant to look at. A version of this routine is also in “The Art Of Close up Vol.1” by Lewis Ganson. Its name is « The Modern Shell Game » (of Harry Stanley?).
These books are not new (1970) but they deserve to be required
Message: Posted by: funstuff (Jan 21, 2005 10:39AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-19 20:55, Magicmaven wrote:
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllll, I got my Street Shells today.

Even though I know very little about the con, I know enough to know that these are great shells. I don't find them very slippery. the shell doesn't roll at all when the pea is being loaded/stolen. Loading, and stealing the pea is SOOOOOOOOO easy! I love it. Many posted that they are very sturdy, and long lasting- but they seem fragile. Hmm. Anyway, Over the last week, I have been useing my knowledge from the Osborne book, and a set of Penguinmagic shells. I have had a lot of success when showing the "routines" from the Osborne book, to my parents. I cant wait for the SFS Dvd to come out.

A proud customer,
[/quote]
I too recently got the perfect and gold shells from penguin and wanted to know if you like the s4s street shells more? Are they easier to grip and work with? I seem to have problems holding and using these as they are slippery and small. Though I just started.
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 21, 2005 03:12PM)
They are much better than the "perfect" ones- which are bad. The perfect peas that come with the SFS shells are similar to the ones penguin supplies, but better. I love my SFS shells. As I work more diverse moves, they are kinda slippery, but nothing you can't get used to. The simple, traditional loads and steals are down right easy with the SFS shells! I love the SFS shells- get them if you want a great set of shells!

Proud to be an owner of a fabulous set of shells,
Message: Posted by: Adam J (Jan 21, 2005 03:15PM)
I just recieved my Golden Shells and DVD Package (Sal Piacente) from Ebay today. I must say that Sal teaches some great stuff, which is very useful. The downside is the shells are VERY SLIPPERY and also quite small. I'm going to look into the s4s street shells, and some Perfect Peas. I'm glad I got my packge for $27 on Ebay, and he gave me 4 extra Peas too! Go with the S4S shells (from what I hear).

Adam
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Jan 22, 2005 04:41PM)
Just a reminder - the effect can be done with lots of things - thimbles - shells - bottle caps - sea shells - or an upside down match box drawer. At dollar stores there are a lot of small plastic glasses that are gold colored... Three small bells will also work and I use this at Christmas time...

It is not the props it is the routine and the performance that is important...

But if you buy the magic props it is better in the long run to buy GOOD props. It looks good for a magician to have nice props when they go out and do a show...

I had two sets of golden shells from a cheap place and they would hook into the close up mat. So I sanded them and the gold color chipped off. $100.00 down the drain... Live and learn...

This was 6 months before my copper set from the S4S and the copper set works like a dream... If you buy get the good stuff...
Message: Posted by: mota (Jan 24, 2005 08:38PM)
So, not to be pushy or anything, Mr. Haydn but...

it's almost the end of the month, any idea when a fella could log onto your web site to order the shell game video?


Just wondering.
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Jan 25, 2005 02:06AM)
Soon. It is finished. We are waiting to get the artwork for the cover done.
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Jan 28, 2005 02:57PM)
I have the pricey Magnetic Street Shells from S4Sand Im extremely happy with these 3 little shells. I bought them from Hokus Pokus. I also use a magnetic ring: Elohim ring to finish and start very clean. Its very fun to play and perform with the dream Shells from S4S. Can you find anything better, tell me :)
TIP: if you do it on the streets don't play with to big bills, it can be dangerous. that's my experience. If you have the "guts", then you can make lot of cash :)

Im waiting for the new DVD and the special Sharpie :)

Whit: I showed these shells for some native people in Thailand, Asia in early december and they had never seen this game before, they loved it. They loved my card tricks, too :) Next time I go to asia I will bring some tricks with me and sell. The market its big here: billions of people. And, many speaks english very well.
Message: Posted by: implicit (Jan 30, 2005 03:52PM)
How much did the magnetic street shells cost you?
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Jan 30, 2005 04:26PM)
I haven't bought them, but you can buy 'em for $95. They come with a suede bag, 5 perfect peas (and they are perfect) 2 straight peas, and 2 magnetic peas.

http://www.chefanton.com/scoundrelsstore/shell_game.htm
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 14, 2005 06:14PM)
Anyone have any experience with the: La Maggiore shells ?

Thanks,

John Cesta



Another question I have about the shells. As far as routines are they all interactive meaning where you allow the spec to actually "pick" the shell the covers the pea or are may the routines be performed as "solo" pieces without allowing the spec to pick a shell?

I like a routine that Charlie Frye performs in his Eccentricks II DVD. It looks like a performance piece in which he seemingly interacts but since he is performing for the DVD audience no one really picks a shell. But his patter allows for that.

I've seen the glass that covers the shell. I like that idea...is the glass mentioned in the Sheets DVD? I like Sheets and would like to purchase that DVD.

Thanks,

John
Message: Posted by: Kjellstrom (Feb 15, 2005 09:10AM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-30 16:52, implicit wrote:
How much did the magnetic street shells cost you?
[/quote]

I bought my Magnetic Shells from http://hocus-pocus.com/ for 95 dollar.
TIP: do not overuse the advantage of having magnetic peas.
Use it sparingly, combine it with the standard moves.
Also, do not let the specator lift the shells if you use magnetic ones.
Switch the magnetic peas to standard ones before yo let them check them out.
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 21, 2005 09:32AM)
Perhaps I am werid but I feel that the routine is more important than the props. The routine has to be fun and entertaining. Good props are a must but Max Malini used glasses covered with paper for his cups and balls routine.

You can do the misers dream with a sand pail. I fact I think Charlie Miller used a plastic one on one of his video's.

The props are not as important as the routine and the entertainment value. Because it is the entertainment value that what makes us money in the entertainment market.

To see my shell routine check out my web site below.
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 21, 2005 09:38AM)
I agree 100%! And add, there's nothing wrong with nice props either. ;)

John
Message: Posted by: fccfp (Feb 21, 2005 12:42PM)
There is nothing wrong with nice props. However, the don't make up for a poor routine and bad execution. Spending money on props does not replace spending time practicing and rehersing!
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 21, 2005 12:56PM)
I agree with you fccfp and would also like to add performance time and the experience of entertaining in front of real audiences.

That "perforance time" gives magic performaers the "performaers edge" and I feel is an important part of practice time too!
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 21, 2005 04:40PM)
[quote]

There is nothing wrong with nice props. However, the don't make up for a poor routine and bad execution. Spending money on props does not replace spending time practicing and rehersing!
[/quote]

So I guess we all agree:

1. Entertainment is paramount and being competent is first and foremost.
2. There is nothing wrong with nice props.


I would venture to say that anyone in themagiccafe that thinks otherwise, meaning that does not know and agree that entertainment and performing a routine correctly and competently is paramount, should be in a different field.

So, it really goes without saying that nice props does not make the magician/entertainment.

Conclusion:
A discussion concerning props should not be taken as an indication that we are forgetting the main reason we are magicians/entertainers. ;))

So we can stop the loop here. We agree that although nice props are ok that being competent is most important.

John
Message: Posted by: Magicmaven (Feb 21, 2005 05:08PM)
A good routine is the most important. Nice props just aid the good routine, and are icing on the cake.
Message: Posted by: mota (Feb 21, 2005 09:59PM)
Still, no one answered your question about the La Maggiore shells. I love them. I have both them and the SFS street shells. It's apples and oranges. (I also once owned the Karl Fox brass shells and peas...no comparison, both SFS and LM shells and the SFS peas are light years ahead of the Karl Fox shells and a few others I have run across).

The LM shells do handle and load easier and cleaner on the basic moves. The SFS shells are smaller but on many of the other moves other than the "basic" moves the slightly smaller shells work better.

I use them both, but with a slight nod to SFS...for now. Next week it might be different. They are both wins and I have received exemplary service from both manufacterers.

You are in the nice situation that you can't make a wrong choice if deciding between these two types of shells. If you are just considering the LM shells only for some reason, go for it.
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Feb 21, 2005 11:58PM)
To answer the other half of your question: Not all routines are "interactive" where they pick the shell. Besides Charlie Fry's, check out Bob Kohler's "Golden Shells" video. It's interactive enough to not alienate your audience, but basically he does not let them choose the shell. He keeps the patter moving and is one step ahead of the audience all the way to the end. He also uses the glass cover finale that you were asking about.

The Bob Sheets video is good too, but it's very short (18 minutes) and you're buying it basically for one move. Go for Kohler first, the handling is very simple and to the point.
Message: Posted by: knmagic (Feb 22, 2005 08:38PM)
Glenn Bishop, I watched the video at your website and they are really good and informative. Thanks for putting them out there for us to view. I really like the way you perform. Hope to run into you one day at Magic castle.

Ken
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 23, 2005 07:32AM)
Thanks Mota and Dave. I just purchased the S4S shells. Later I may get the LM shells to see the difference. I am glad you mentioned the B. Sheets video and the one move. Maybe when I improve my shell game I'll check out the move.

I do like the non-interactive shell game as a public service.

Thanks again,

John
Message: Posted by: Riley (Feb 23, 2005 12:11PM)
John

I have the mag. S4S shells and the LM shells and both sets are excellent. There are quite a few threads on this board about them.

Regarding the Bob Sheets 'move' - don't wait until you "improve" your shell game before you get the tape - the move isn't difficult and I'm certain if you wait you'll wish you'd got it sooner. A great tape.

Regards

Riley
Message: Posted by: bishthemagish (Feb 23, 2005 01:31PM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-22 21:38, knmagic wrote:
Glenn Bishop, I watched the video at your website and they are really good and informative. Thanks for putting them out there for us to view. I really like the way you perform. Hope to run into you one day at Magic castle.

Ken
[/quote]
Thanks. Me too. My shell routine uses a soft pea and the close up mat. I do not like the hard pea when I started with the shells I found the soft pea better for me and you get lots of peas out of the cutting of just one sponge ball.

My routine is now my first e-book in PDF format...

Thanks again...
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 23, 2005 02:33PM)
The new dvd by Bob Sheets and I called "Introduction to the Shell Game" will contain Bob's acquitment move and many other important ideas. Future S4S dvds in this series will expand on this even more.
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 25, 2005 08:09AM)
This morning I was driving my son to school. I said, "Hey, Mikes, I'm getting my new shells today."

Mikes: Why?

Me: I don't know I just want to see how different shells work.

My Little 4 year old chimes in: Dad, you should get some new ones so that little sponge thing doesn't come out.

Me: What?

Julie: With the shells you have the little sponge thing comes out when you move them. You should get new ones.

Me: OK?

Julie, my 4 year old, memorizes all the patter for my tricks. She tells me when I miss a piece while I'm rehearsing in the car (just patter) or at home.

The problem now is that she is running around repeating:

Never eat at a place called moms....
.....
.....
....and never play games with another man's nuts!

Oh well.

John
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 25, 2005 10:55AM)
My daughter is now 25 and expecting her first child. I intend to teach my grandchild the same first nursery rhyme that I taught my daughter when she was four:

"Inky dinky parlez vous,
I'll tell you what I'm gonna do:
A little game from Hanky Poo
Two for me and one for you--
If you have nerve,
then you'll have plenty--
five draws ten,
and ten draws twenty..."

It sure confused "the authorities" at kindergarten. ;)
Message: Posted by: John C (Feb 25, 2005 03:10PM)
Hey Whit,

Do you still have that "Crisco" table? (heh,heh)

John
Message: Posted by: Whit Haydn (Feb 27, 2005 02:02PM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-25 16:10, johncesta wrote:


Hey Whit,

Do you still have that "Crisco" table? (heh,heh)

John
[/quote]

Nope. Found a sucker. ;)
Message: Posted by: rnaviaux (Mar 8, 2005 12:48PM)
Here is a thought I've been tossing around. (Vernon talks about this.)Having the spec pick a card in the three card monte gives too much of a sting. I think this should be applied to the three shell game as well. (I'm not sure how yet but I'm working on it.) The shell game should be routined in such a way that the spec never apeears to be an idiot unless of course you are playing for real money.

Randy
Message: Posted by: John C (Mar 8, 2005 12:53PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-08 13:48, rnaviaux wrote:
Here is a thought I've been tossing around. (Vernon talks about this.)Having the spec pick a card in the three card monte gives too much of a sting. I think this should be applied to the three shell game as well. (I'm not sure how yet but I'm working on it.) The shell game should be routined in such a way that the spec never apeears to be an idiot unless of course you are playing for real money.

Randy
[/quote]

Charlie Frye has a nice presentation along these lines. He even wears a shiny purple coat and a slicked hair wig.

It's in his Eccentricks II DVD.

John
Message: Posted by: Riley (Mar 9, 2005 04:29PM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-25 11:55, whithaydn wrote:
My daughter is now 25 and expecting her first child. I intend to teach my grandchild the same first nursery rhyme that I taught my daughter when she was four:

"Inky dinky parlez vous,
I'll tell you what I'm gonna do:
A little game from Hanky Poo
Two for me and one for you--
If you have nerve,
then you'll have plenty--
five draws ten,
and ten draws twenty..."

It sure confused "the authorities" at kindergarten. ;)
[/quote]

Beautiful. To slightly paraphrase Allen Kennedy to Vernon:

"Whit, I want to congratulate you. You're really bringing that girl up right!" :)
Message: Posted by: markmagic (Mar 31, 2005 10:55PM)
Whit, I was pitching the three shells in 1971 at an outdoor flea market in Ky. This old con-man walked up, knew what was going on and taught me this patter. Could've even been for three card monte, can't remember. " He said" It's as easy as fat meat's greasy, It's as fair as a bird in the air, Watch me now as I cross my hands, cause, I'll fool a man..... and sometimes I won't. Have you heard anything similar to that?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Apr 1, 2005 03:28AM)
[quote]
On 2005-02-21 22:59, mota wrote:
Still, no one answered your question about the La Maggiore shells. I love them. I have both them and the SFS street shells. It's apples and oranges. (I also once owned the Karl Fox brass shells and peas...no comparison, both SFS and LM shells and the SFS peas are light years ahead of the Karl Fox shells and a few others I have run across).

[/quote]

Are you referring to the Karl Norman brass shells?

I just got through watching the S4S Three Shell Game video Volume 1. IMNSHO, it is a must for anyone wanting to learn the "Old Army Game."
Message: Posted by: mota (Apr 3, 2005 12:23PM)
Could have been Karl Norman...it's been a while.

It had a vinyl covered piece of foam for a pea. The shells were heavy brass shaped like upside down bowls. They made quite a noise when pea exiting, heavy brass can be loud.
Message: Posted by: ImpromptuBoy (Apr 3, 2005 03:27PM)
You wanna start the three shell game? I HIGHLY recommend that you pick up either Sal Piacente's Three shell Game DVD, or Whit Haydn's DVD on the three shell game. They're BOTH very highly recommended.

Michael
Message: Posted by: GlenD (Apr 5, 2005 09:52AM)
To piggyback on Magicmavens post here a little... I have been practicing the 3 shell game since getting a set of the La Maggiore shells late last year (these seem to work great for me and I like them just fine).
I have a basic routine down fairly well but I still want to research other routines and info before I perform with them.
I also want to order more soft peas and one or two of the hard peas from "S4S", if possible.

So far my routine ends with the shot glass and finally with a pearl instead of the pea under one of the other shells.
I got this idea from Patrick Paiges video.

But what I thought I could follow this up with is the making of a pearl poodle for the person closest (probably a spectator who helped during the routine).
I produce the little string of pearls from a seashell that has one pearl in it, then out comes a little string of them.

What do you guys think ?
And as Glen mentioned earlier, you can use various items for the shells and I have thought about maybe using seashells and pearls when doing it but I would need soft pearls right ?

Any thoughts or comments would be welcomed.

By the way... FUNNY story, John, thanks for sharing!

GlenD
Message: Posted by: Werner G. Seitz (Apr 5, 2005 10:55AM)
The 3 shell game, when well presented, is an outstanding piece of close-up magic!

I just attended at convention where there where competitions in table-hopping too.

One of the guys, IMHO, the very best of them all, did a beautifull version of the 3 shell game, with all the bits of bizz, spec involvement, it was just perfect.

He neither failed to give the credit to diff. specs at diff. stages of the game:
*I don't know how YOU did it, but you did it well..give her a big round of applause*.aso. aso.

He didn't forget to touch them gently on their shoulder, during his patter and routine, simply all the important bits of bizz and his patter, movements and last not least his routine was flawless!

He's from Finland and his name is *Christian*..

And guess what?
He didn't get a prize at all, I think he got disqualified because he only did one single *trick*!

Don't know if it clearly was stated beforehand to all performers that the rule was to do 2 or 3 diff. routines (read 'tricks') at least, it couldn't have been stated, otherwise they couldn't disqualify him, in that case I suppose he would have thrown in some more trickery..

To me -and I know a little about how magic should look and should be done- he was the very best of them all and I'm sure the judges (judges where solely the ppl sitting at the tables that where worked) no doubt did rate him very high..

What a shame...his little act was one of the highlights of the convention..
I've seen quite a few 3 shell game operators, some very, very good ones, but this guy could easily be in their companie, he did his stuff sooo entertaining..what a shame his ability didn't get recognized.. :(
Message: Posted by: Dave V (Apr 5, 2005 11:08AM)
That happens frequently. I remember Rudy Coby coming out with his "four legged man" act and not qualifying because it didn't meet the minimum time requirements.

There seems to be "entertaining" and then there is "competitive" and you can have one without the other. That works both ways too. I've seen some good competition winners who weren't that entertaining... except to other magicians.