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Topic: Long Pour Salt
Message: Posted by: magicsam (Jan 6, 2005 02:31AM)
Hi,

I have recently ordered the James Riser 'Ultimate Salt Gimmick', and I was interested in the history and origins of this effect.

I have read in articles that Roy Benson and Fred Kaps greatly improved this trick, but I am unable to find what of it they actually improved.

Does anyone know the history and origins of this trick, as well as the adaptations/improvements of the handling throughout the years?


Thanks
for the help!

Sam Clarke
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 6, 2005 07:41AM)
The trick has quite a history. See how far google gets you and then maybe we can fill in some of the blanks. Seems odd to start with such a finely made piece of apparatus instead of just one of the basic routines (many offered from long ago) but perhaps that is a good place to start anyway.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 6, 2005 02:43PM)
They contributed PRESENTATION -- the single most important part.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 7, 2005 06:42PM)
Ross Bertram had a lot to do with it. Look in [i]The Magic and Methods of Ross Bertram[/i] for more information.
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Jan 7, 2005 07:57PM)
Sorry about the eye Pete. Did you get the wooden leg to go with it?
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 7, 2005 10:32PM)
That's fixed, now look!
Message: Posted by: hugmagic (Jan 9, 2005 10:32AM)
I guess than ran out of parts and only had two right hand parts left.
Message: Posted by: Randy Sager (Jan 9, 2005 09:45PM)
I could be incorrect but to My knowledge, Roy Benson was the first one to have the stream of salt pour from the bottom of his fist rather then turning the hand over. I think the way it was originaly done was the hand was turned so the thmb side of the hand would be towards the floor and the salt would then pour out that way.

To me the way Benson and Kaps did it looks more natural.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 11, 2005 09:35PM)
Dr. Zola had a rubber TT with a slit in it. Squeeze it and salt came out from below the fist. Too small tho...
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 14, 2005 01:09AM)
Bertram also had it pour out of the bottom of his fist.
Message: Posted by: Jonathan Townsend (Jan 14, 2005 05:40AM)
Would that be Charles or Ross Bertram?
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 14, 2005 04:43PM)
Ross. See my earlier post.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (Jan 15, 2005 01:14AM)
There is a great act coming to the Magic Castle awards show that has a continuous salt pour (well it is sand) that goes for about 10-15 Minutes. It involves two surfer dudes and they literally wind up with about a foot deep of sand filling almost the whole stage.

They had some tech problems last year at the WMS, but I thought those aside, the act was awesome.
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Jan 17, 2005 11:47PM)
Pete:

We do that one in Texas all the time. No gimmicks. If you drive about 40 miles east of El Paso, you will see where I have been rehearsing it. It's called the Chihuahuan Desert.

This is the one version of the pour that the wind actually helps. I used to practice up around Alamosa Colorado, but I had to give up, the dunes got too large.
Message: Posted by: patrick flanagan (Jan 19, 2005 02:41PM)
Can someone help me.......i'm trying to get in touch with james riser to see when he will have more gimmicks for the salt pour available. I went to his website and tried to email him, but something about having to sign into microsoft passport prevents me. I don't know about this microsoft passport. Does anyone have an email address or phone number where I could reach mr. riser. or can someone tell me how I get into this microsoft passport. thanks
Message: Posted by: RiserMagic (Jan 20, 2005 12:11AM)
Patrick;
I'll be spinning a small run of my Ultimate Salt Gimmicks the first half of February.

I was not aware of any "passport" requirements. It might be on your end. It's not part of my web site. Everyone else (plus every spammer in the world) seems to get through OK.

try:
jriser@jamesriser.com
or
jriser@mindspring.com

Jim
Message: Posted by: joespc (Jan 31, 2005 10:33PM)
Try to find the book "Texan Trickster" (by John Morhing) for a routine and tips on presenting this effect.
Message: Posted by: R Don (Feb 23, 2005 10:14AM)
Years ago they just sent you a medicine vial. The late John Pomeroy used to make a fancy Cellini type device
Message: Posted by: tabman (Feb 23, 2005 12:13PM)
Well, you can all credit Paul Kozak with helping to repolularize the trick whether you buy his gimmick or not. It will become a required trick like the linking rings. The audience always asks if you can do that trick where the rings link and unlink. Now it will be, "but can you do that trick where salt comes out of Kozak The Great's hand???" Kaps and Kozak!!!!

-=tabman
Message: Posted by: thelestat (Feb 27, 2005 05:14PM)
[quote]
On 2005-01-06 15:43, Pete Biro wrote:
They contributed PRESENTATION -- the single most important part.
[/quote]Hey Pete on that note I'm looking for the Danny Korem salt bowl. I had one when I was a kid and did not realize what I had until after I sold it....any one? Beuler, beuler any one Beuler.Dimmare
Message: Posted by: Bill Palmer (Mar 1, 2005 08:59PM)
It is very hard to find one of those Korem Salt Bowls that still works.

After the initial run of them, there were some big issues with these bowls, and they never seemed to be quite the same.

You might send a message to Kenna Thompson and Ron Allesi that you are looking for one.

Posted: Apr 18, 2005 3:13am
Here is some more on the salt pour. According to Ross Bertram, it was originated by Henry Gordien, who used a simple tube. Ross tried increasing the capacity various ways. Ade Duval had Danny Dew make him a special gimmick for producing a silk which was later converted to use in the salt pour. Vernon had one of these.

There is a lot of information in The Magic and Methods of Ross Bertram.
Message: Posted by: David Todd (Apr 27, 2005 08:55PM)
[quote]
On 2005-03-01 21:59, Bill Palmer wrote:
It is very hard to find one of those Korem Salt Bowls that still works.

After the initial run of them, there were some big issues with these bowls, and they never seemed to be quite the same.
[/quote]
To fill in the gaps of my historical knowledge : What is the Danny Korem Salt Bowl ? What did it do ?
(not asking for the method; just a description of it's function in a salt pour routine.)
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 3, 2005 02:46PM)
I've posted this before. But I think it bears repeating.

The 2-DVD set "Ed Sullivan Presents The Beatles" contains the entire episodes in which the Beatles appeared. Two of them also contain magic acts. One is Fantasio (no canes or candles 'though!) and the other is Fred Kaps doing a card trick that goes wrong, (the audience seems embarrassed at first, Fred is almost done with the trick before they realize they're allowed to laugh) and the salt pour.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 4, 2005 08:38PM)
Can you supply the exact title, publisher etc. on that DVD with Kaps doing the salt, please?
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 6, 2005 04:48AM)
[quote]
On 2005-05-04 21:38, Pete Biro wrote:
Can you supply the exact title, publisher etc. on that DVD with Kaps doing the salt, please?
[/quote]

"The Four Complete Historic Ed Sullivan Shows featuring The Beatles"

distributed by GoodTimes Entertainment (very VERY small print here, but it looks like 16 E 40th St., NYC, NY 10016.

Produced by SOFA Entertainment. http://www.sofa4u.com There's a number on the inside flap that reads 05-81624.

Fred Kaps is on the first disc, on the first show right after the Beatles (there's a position I wouldn't envy!)

Do you think we might get the Sullivan people to release a "magic" DVD? Or at least maybe a "variety" DVD that would feature magic along with the vents and acrobats et. al. that have appeared on the Sullivan show over the years.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 9, 2005 02:05PM)
SOLT, with help from Ricky Jay "did" a series with variety acts that did air, but I missed most of them. I don't have time to check right now, leaving tomorrow for three weeks in Europe.

OH, thanks for the details, etc., above.
Message: Posted by: runawayjag (May 9, 2005 02:34PM)
Korem's Super Salt Bowl created the illusion that a clear plastic bowl was slowly filling with salt as it poured from your hand. It made whatt amounts to a saltshaker or so full of salt, look like a 10" in diameter by 3" high bowl of salt. It think it enhances the illusion since there is such a long pouring, but such a small quantity on the floor. This looks like the amount of salt is being produced that the illusion creates. It was mechanically very clever and ingenious, but not so well constructed.

Rick Anderson also had a salt pour gimmick that was literally endless. As I recall, he called it the Solid State Salt Pour. You stopped the flow whenever you wanted. You could, literally, pour for an hour if your audience wasn't asleep 58 minutes before. It relied on something completely different from the usual Salt Pour gimmicks. He, too, had a bowl, but its purpose was to vanish the "salt" at the end or, more accurately, change it to a silk.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 10, 2005 11:45AM)
I like the idea of catching it in a bowl, or a tray, rather than setting the stage up for a "sand dancer!" :kermit:
Message: Posted by: ed rhodes (May 14, 2005 10:27AM)
[quote]
On 2005-05-09 15:05, Pete Biro wrote:
SOLT, with help from Ricky Jay "did" a series with variety acts that did air, but I missed most of them. I don't have time to check right now, leaving tomorrow for three weeks in Europe.

OH, thanks for the details, etc., above.
[/quote]

I'm lost. What's SOLT? And I don't get to see a lot that DOES air these days so I'd be looking more for a DVD set like they did with the Beatles.
Message: Posted by: Pete Biro (May 31, 2005 11:44PM)
Andrew Solt is the owner of the Ed Sullivan shows. Do a google to find his site.
Message: Posted by: Shane Baker (Oct 26, 2005 10:03PM)
He runs a production company that bought the Sullivan run of programs about 20 years ago. It's great that they're finally releasing some of the material, and allowing re-broadcasts (though mixed and matched from different old episodes) on public tv. Of course, if you live in New York or LA, you can also view a lot of Sullivan material at the Museum of Television and Radio History.