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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Small imaginary coin routines (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Daegs
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The *best* way to do this with no gimmicks or funny wording is this:


Set the card face down with a prediction for heads, and then lay an actual coin down under the card Tails side up.

Bring it out, set it down and say, "This is for later" or something to that effect.


Get down from 3 or 4 or 5 to your force coin, let them freely decide the outcome of the flip, and you can either very cleanly show that the coin and side they picked is laying on the table from the very begining, or that you made a prediction that was 100% correct(hide and then ditch the coin).

I believe I read this on the Café somewhere, and this is the best way to perform this because it is gimmickless and extremely convincing.

You should be able to perform a 3-5 coin equivocue with no problem, and the final flip is truly free.

Fun, instant reset(writing new prediction if heads), impromptu, gimmickless and a surefire hit.... The best of all the versions IMHO.
TheNightBringer89
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Daegs thank you so much! I can't believe I didn't think of it, I agree with you this is the most convincing. I'm going to try it out today.
"Dreams are born of imagination, fed upon illusions, and put to death by reality."

It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong,
If you're not like the others then you don't belong.
sludge
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Daegs, that was probably my method you read and liked, (I haven't read it anywhere else but someone else may have published it before I mentioned it).

I posted it here on the Café both a couple of years ago and again in the last week when the topic came round again. This method serves me well, but has got even stronger and more meaningful recently thanks to Richard Busch's The Destiny Response.Smile

ade
Lord Of The Horses
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I personally use an ALL equivoque procedure from start to end.

For the final bit (Heads or Tails) I use the "invisible marker" plot that I credit to Dan Harlan (because someone told me it was his idea).
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
asmayly
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Daegs or Sludge,
Would you have to ditch the coin?

If it's heads, why not lift the card off the coin and say "I predicted you would choose a quarter" (or which ever coin), and pick up the coin showing it. Then turn the card over and say, "and I predicted the coin would land 'heads'."
Vraagaard
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Quote:
On 2005-01-12 18:37, asmayly wrote:
Daegs or Sludge,
Would you have to ditch the coin?

If it's heads, why not lift the card off the coin and say "I predicted you would choose a quarter" (or which ever coin), and pick up the coin showing it. Then turn the card over and say, "and I predicted the coin would land 'heads'."



Well, it would look a little odd to lift the card and have the coin lying tails side up, and the flip the card over where it's written "heads" side up. That just signals an out. Here is what you can do instead, if you have trouble ditching the coin.

Put the card with the coin under in your left hand palm up, keep it there under the entire presentation. Now you can easily lift the card to show the coin tails side up without showing the writing on the card, or you can take the card and show the writing while tilting your left hand at the same time to hide the coin and retain it in finger palm. Since nobody suspected you had a coin there in the first place, your "dirty" left hand has no heat on it.

However, if the spectator chooses tails side up, you of course cannot hand out the business card used in thr routine, but you can always bring it to your breast pocket and switch and say, "Oh, by the way, can I have my coin back? Then you can get my business card instead".

Jan Vraagaard

Quote:
On 2005-01-12 15:47, sludge wrote:
Daegs, that was probably my method you read and liked, (I haven't read it anywhere else but someone else may have published it before I mentioned it).

I posted it here on the Café both a couple of years ago and again in the last week when the topic came round again. This method serves me well, but has got even stronger and more meaningful recently thanks to Richard Busch's The Destiny Response.Smile

ade


Dear Daeggs, anything specific in the Destiny Response that you feel enhanced the effect? The concept as such, or anything specific concerning the coin routine.

Please PM, if its anything specific. I have the booklet (its not a book, although I thought so when I bought it) I'm just curious as to your findings.

Best regards

Jan
Harris0n
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I completely agree that The Destiny Response will turn this effect (however it's achieved) from a clever demonstration of mind control or prediction, into a meaningful and emotive experience.

Jan, I'd refer you to the concept as a whole, though a coin routine is discussed in the booklet.
"There are times when the truth is necessary and times when myth-making is necessary." Nick Cave
asmayly
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Vraagaard,
Not meaning to belabor this, but your idea to start with the coin in the hand is good. However, thinking along this line, why even have the card. Just bring out your hand (or bring it out early and say I have something I want to show you later). If the coin is tails, open the hand with the fingers on top. If it's heads, subtly rotate your fist over, letting the coin drop to the fingers before opening it, and show it heads. (Though as I think about this, I don't especially like the "rotating the hand" bit as it is a move that sub-consiously signals something isn't right).

I did try the other idea on my wife with the picking up the "tails-side-up" coin when it was heads and turning over the card afterwards that said "heads" , and you were right, my wife said she was wondering why the coin was tails side up. But she said, once I turned the card over and it said, "heads", she was very surprised.
ElliottB
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Great idea. Thanks!
TheNightBringer89
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Hey guys it's not very difficult to ditch a coin. Whats the big deal? Maybe it's because I used to do coin and card work......
"Dreams are born of imagination, fed upon illusions, and put to death by reality."

It doesn't matter if you're right or wrong,
If you're not like the others then you don't belong.
Joshua Quinn
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The best solution I've seen with a card and coin is one I think I read on this board (though I can't find it now). The spec either A) lifts the card off to see what's underneath it, or B) turns it over to see what's on it (after you've subtly tapped it while pointing out that it's been there from the beginning, etc.). I'm deliberately being a little vague in this open forum, but if you need details, PM me.

That said, I do it without the coin, and handle the heads/tails issue with an Xpert.
Every problem contains the seeds of its own solution. Unfortunately every problem also contains the seeds of an infinite number of non-solutions, so that first part really isn't super helpful.
Daegs
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Yes, there are solutions with wax or tape so you can lift the card easier to ditch the coin, but really, the big thing is that it is un-gaffed and hands-off.

I think the coin in the hand won't work, the great thing about this approach (as with other methods) is that it is very, very hands off.

Whichever they choose, they are only aware of 1 prediction, and the ambiguity of the statement made at the beginning will verify whatever ending you use.

So just ditch the coin and don't give it a second thought. You can either use a matrix like snap to lift it, a simple rotating of the card to catch the coins edge or slide it off of the table... or you could even set the bundle down on your wallet and slide it off the wallet if it would be easier on you.... but don't muddle it with coins in the hand or funky lifts.


Thanks Sludge for the principle. It rocks and is so impromptu. With just a piece of paper and a coin you have a miracle on your hands.
johne
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Too complicated...just lift the card, and put your other hand over the coin at the same time if you want to show the bottom of the card. A simple, "Look at the bottom of this card" and you have all the misdirection you need. People vanish elephants this way, you know?

John E.
fib
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Purists bite your tongue: her goes:
E-q the routine down to any imaginary coin, say, a quarter. Do a pretend flip into the air. Say, "heads or tails?" Toss it/shuttle pass it to lefty hand for Jumbo appearance of thought-of-coin. Yeah,it's a trick. Yeah, it's mental magic, not mental-IZM. But it's fun and they're blown away.

fib
ElliottB
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I tried the coin prediction a few times using a Piatt envelope. It worked great. The spectator can remove the card from the envelope and keep the card every time. We all are familiar with Max Maven’s Videomind (the source of Positive Negative), so I’ll mention another effect that becomes stronger with a Piatt Envelope. That effect is “Shape Up”. Without risking exposure, I’ll say that the Piat makes things a little more inspectable and interactive.

This, of course, doesn't mean that I've lost interest in Bryn's effect. I'm looking forward to purchasing it as soon as possible.

Thanks,

Elliott
bloodyjack
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I have now made my gaffed coin for Doc Hilfords Nightmare coin routine
http://mysite.verizon.net/bloodyjack/index2.html
"sir i sent you half the kidne i took from one woman prasarved it for you tother piece i fried and ate it was very nise i may send you the bloody knif that took it out if you only wate a whil longer"
Crossroads Mystic
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Very nice work.

Gavin D.
...from whose bourne,

no traveler returns...

Formerly Mr.Skin

facebook.com/CrossroadsMystic
Stephen Thompson
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I ask them to remove a coin like a 20 or a euro coin (Ireland) They are most likely to remove a 50. In which case I don;t have to force one of three because my prediction reads the 50 cent coin will be tails up.

If they don't take out a fifty first you have them remove two more.. and continue as normal.

S
ElliottB
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I just received the BusinessCoin Prediction today. I am already familiar with the required use of equivoque, so I spent about 5 minutes with the sample card and tried it out. The reactions were extremely strong. I’ll also add that the spectators were family members who had already seen me perform 3 different versions of Positive/Negative. We are all familiar the original Positive/Negative. therefore, I will compare the strengths and weaknesses of my two favorite improvements to this effect:

Assertive Positive/Negative by Scott Guinn – This can be done completely impromptu. The prediction can be written on the spot and the card can always be given out. No gimmicks are used. The patter is very funny and reactions are strong. On the down side, one of the endings is the same as the Maven ending that some don’t like. Also, Scott assumes that the reader is familiar with Max’s trick and, therefore, only gives a brief overview of the opening equivoque.

BusinessCoin – Comes with very detailed instructions for the equivoque. Both endings are effectively the same and are VERY direct. The reactions on my first few attempts were stronger than Assertive Positive/Negative; it just seems impossible. It also feels a little more like mentalism than Assertive/Positive Negative. On the down side: You will need to carry a prepared card. It will take some work to hand out your card in some situations. Also, you can only make it appear that you are writing the prediction on the spot (if that’s what you want to do). Comes with a special card, but you will probably want to make your own (very easy to do).

Bottom Line: I’ll definitely put Business Coin in my wallet, but I’ll also keep Assertive Positive/Negative in reserve because it is completely impromptu and nearly as strong (especially Scott’s ending which is very funny).
Scott F. Guinn
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Thanks, Elliott! Your comments are very kind and much appreciated.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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