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John C
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Eternal Order
I THINK therefore I wrote
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Quote:
On 2006-11-25 10:22, mrlucky wrote:
You may have better response on an educational show?


My reading program will be available in 2007. We'll see what kind of response it creates. Smile

John
The ULTIMATE Routine Series: rebirth soon!
Donald Dunphy
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Victoria, BC, Canada
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Let's hope that no one even thinks of selling a show that has not been thoroughly tested and proven as a working winner.

At the bare minimum, several hundred presentations to work out all of the bugs. Preferably, thousands of successful performances before sharing it.

I've read of performers who intended to sell their "proven" show, only to find out they've done it less than 50 times (one even admitted less than 30 times). That's just wrong. Although they say otherwise, it was all about the money, and not about helping people or doing the morally right thing.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Smoke & Mirrors
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I see a repetition of posts here by someone concerned with money and not helping others. I hope people are wise to this and their decisions.
Michael238
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Cool, now I will be able to market myself as Jolly Roger!
www.mikebrownmagic.com
<BR>http://www.facebook.com/#!/profile.php?id=885780636
Donald Dunphy
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I think it's great that Roger is doing some research beforehand, and seeing if there is an interest in this product before going ahead with production. Some might see it as planting the seeds for selling this, and it could be that, as well.

(Caution -- joking ahead!)

After reading his comments on the rabbit thread, I can just see it now...

Customer: "Do I get a box with tricks in it, with routines?" (Thinking they're asking about a nice wood box, with quality props inside and a jumping stool).

Roger: "Yes, you get a box with tricks in it, and the routine in print and a DVD. It's the best show in the world, because I am the greatest Jolly Roger ever!"

Customer pays $495 and gets revelation. It arrives, he opens it, and it isn't a "real" box, but rather a "cardboard cut-out" one (or one made of hardboard and duct tape). The props are second rate, cheaply made "cardboard cut-outs". But "original". Smile

Roger thinks to himself. "He didn't say a 'real' box. He'll be happy with this 'cardboard cut-out' one. It's just as good. There are other routines that will play stronger than a 'real' box, that you don't even need a 'real' box for. Maybe the DVD / CD will play in his machine, and maybe it won't. Now, I can afford to gas up my new Lamborghini."

:lol:

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
magicbern
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Actually, I'm a bit divided over this issue. One the one hand, I agree absolutely that it's essential to be a 'thinking magician' and not a 'carbon copy' of others. However, having purchased both the late Brian Flora's Birthday Party box and Barry Mitchell's excellently conceived and produced Show in a Suitcase, I have benefited from ****yzing the creative process that went into the creation of these products. Perhaps it's best to purchase them if they fit your style, and then adapt them in order to personalize them further.

I see no difference in purchasing a single trick or a complete 'box' show in terms of copying word-for-word. If someone is going to copy things verbatim, then they will, regarding of how many diverse opinions are solicited or given here on the Café.

If Jolly Roger does his research and feels it's economically viable to release such a product, I think it's within his rights. It's also within our rights as consumers to choose whether or not to purchase them. Once purchased, again, how we use it is very much up to us, the consumer, and how we perceive ourselves as magicians and entertainers.
magicbern
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Quote:
On 2006-11-26 18:52, magicbern wrote:

However, having purchased both the late Brian Flora's Birthday Party box and Barry Mitchell's excellently conceived and produced Show in a Suitcase, I have benefited from ****ysing the creative process that went into the creation of these products.



Why the above word was partially deleted is really weird - as it isn't offensive. Taken on its own, the four deleted letters form a word which could be perceived as 'rude', meaning the 'posterior orifice' of a person. But when used as part of the spelling of a verb with the dictionary definition of 'to examine carefully in order to find out more about...', then the censorship seems redundant.
SeaDawg
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Perhaps one of the most interesting thoughts had to do with geographic exclusivity. If Roger proceeds with his packaged shows, and I believe that unlike others the quality will be there, a safeguard to ensure that 8 magicians in the same small area are not all doing the "Jolly Good" show. I doubt this would happened, but forewarned is forearmed.

I can see the value for some in having a time-tested prepackaged show of a running line-up, routines, patter, and props. But at the end of the day, the magician is going to have to have two very important P's to the equation. Unless the magi brings Performance and Persona, I think the whole deal will remain flat dull and lifeless... But on the other hand, with effort, the show could become a wild, zany fun-filled interactive frolic that one would be proud to present.

In the end, the proof will be in the Pudding (or Ravioli, should you prefer).
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
magicbob116
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Quote:
On 2006-11-26 18:57, magicbern wrote:

Why the above word was partially deleted is really weird - as it isn't offensive.


We've noticed this a few times before on other threads. It's automated. If it finds a string that matches any on the "forbidden list", it substitutes the asterisks. The search engine that looks for "offensive" terms doesn't recognize that it was just coincidental that those four letters are part of an acceptable word.
B. Robert Pulver

The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3
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magicbern
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Magicbob, thanks for the information. I just didn't want others on this thread to think I was using disrespectful language to get across my point. I will check my words carefully to ensure that offensive combinations of letters don't appear again.
Jolly Roger
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Quote:
As far as your legacy, be inspirational, but don't sell off your act. After the hacks trash it, it won't be regarded as a legacy any more.
Is a steak still a steak after it's been ground and torn to shreds to make a cheap ball park frank?
Your legacy lies within your inner knowledge of your craft and business practices. Write a book about your life, experiences, and your knowledge. I'd be first in line to buy that!



Thank you all for your feed back, and I have made my decision. I have based it on many factors, but I have to say that Cris McBrien's first post was the real clincher. I have decided not to go with my magic in a box. Would I have made a lot of money out of it? Yes, I believe I would. But life is not all about money, and I have made a very comfortable living out of magic for nearly all my life since leaving Drama School in London in the late 1960s.

This box would have contained my prize routines that I have treasured and improved on over the past 40 years. To give it all away could indeed have been a mistake, as in the wrong hands, the routines would not have attained the perfection that they warrant.

On a positive note, I will be producing a DVD next year with a limited number of original routines included. I am also in the process of writing a book and have been for the past two years. I am hoping it will be published towards the end of next year, and I will keep you posted. It is not a book of tricks......in fact, there are no tricks in it. It is a very deep, inspirational book that is focused towards entertainers who are just starting out in this profession, and those like me who have been in it all their lives. I believe nothing similar has ever been written. I will reveal more as publication date approaches!

Thank you again for all your help. Sometimes in life, it is wise to take the moral high ground, and I believe that is what I have done. JR
magicbob116
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Just be extra careful when using old quotations such as, "The pen is mightier than the sword."

Smile
B. Robert Pulver

The "I Hate Card Tricks!" Book of Card Tricks Vol. 1, 2, and 3
Kards for Kids
Sticky Situations
Sleightly Wacky
http://www.magicnook.com/magicbob
chris mcbrien
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Wow, JR, I have no idea what to say...I did not know my words were that important. They were just words from the heart, really. It makes me very joyful that you found something of value in them.
Please let me know when the book and DVD come out...I'd like to buy autographed copies of both!
Chris
Ed_Millis
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I saw myself in many of these posts which referred to unpolished magicians who simply buy a trick and perform it. I think Harry Murphy captured me well:

Quote:
Too many individuals have an idea of how to present an off-the-shelf trick. They don’t have any idea of how to structure a show to maximize its entertainment value. I have seen literately hundreds of magicians (family/kid show performers) who do standard off-the-shelf tricks. I have even seen some of them do them well. Heck, some even modify the presentation to fit their own personality and style. However, these are rare.

Sometimes, it is not simply a “lazy magician” syndrome at work here. Often, it is a person that simply lives in an area where in he/she works in a near vacuum and is learning by trial and error. Often, they have day-time jobs that take them away from the hours they need to do the hard work of being totally original and creative. Many work hard to try to get good (entertaining, efficient, etc., etc.), and they want to give a good (entertaining) show for good value.


The idea of a “party in a box” intrigued me right at first, but I knew I would never buy it (even if I did have the money) for one simple reason: I can buy props and routines, but I can’t buy largeness of character. If Roger could package the essence of his character, and I could put that on each time, then I probably wouldn’t have any problems doing his routines. Without that, though, I’m afraid I’d be stuck with another bunch of props and routines that I wouldn’t be able to use.

Quote:
On a positive note, I will be producing a DVD next year with a limited number of original routines included. I am also in the process of writing a book and have been for the past two years. I am hoping it will be published towards the end of next year, and I will keep you posted. It is not a book of tricks......in fact, there are no tricks in it. It is a very deep, inspirational book that is focused towards entertainers who are just starting out in this profession, and those like me who have been in it all their lives.


Probably my greatest magic purchase was David Kaye’s “Seriously Silly”, because it introduced my to how to think like a kid’s magician. (It also gave me a few good routines!) I can buy any prop I want, but the patter sheets don’t come with instructions on how elevate it from a trick to a show! If Roger’s book and DVD will do more of the same, then please keep me on the mailing list!

Ed
Jolly Roger
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Thank you, Ed, for your very honest post. It is refreshing to see amongst so many egomaniacs, who believe they are right all the time! I always have time for people who are willing to learn and accept critique. Let me know if ever I can help with anything, and I will certainly keep you on the mailing list for my book and DVD.
SeaDawg
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Roger,
I, too, would like to be kept on the mailing list. I have posted before and will post again, it is all in the showmanship. And there is no one source that has it all. Inspiration for strengthening our routines and tightening up our shows comes from many sources and in many guises.

For those who choose to attack as their primary means of discourse, I think that they may be "throwing out the baby with the bathwater".
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
Jolly Roger
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"For those who choose to attack as their primary means of discourse, I think that they may be "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"."

Oh, so true, Seadawg! But the survivors like you will realise the wisdom that is available to those who open up their hearts and souls to the tremendous potential within each one of them, and listen rather than attack!

You are on my mailing list!
Jolly Roger
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http://www.stevensmagic.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=5753

A couple of you have asked about the European Jumping Stool. It is put out by Steen Pegani in Denmark. The email address is tryl@pegani.uk Tel0045 7562 0217

In my opinion it is the best jumping stool out there, but the rubber does eventually wear out. If anyone knows where I can get replacement rubber straps in the US, please let me know. I have bought three sets in the last couple of years. However, I do hundreds of shows a year, so it is no great surprise they wear out! This stool goes very high! The above link is to the same stool, which Joe Stevens imports from Belgium.........so you can get it from whichever gives you the best price, depending where you live. JR
Potty the Pirate
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Many years ago, there were a couple of "ready to go" shows that were released. I wonder if anyone can remember by whom? One of the shows was a pirate show, and a wooden pirate ship was provided, which contained all the props for a whole show. I think another was a "Haunted House", which again contained all the props for a 45 min show. The idea was that after each trick, the magi would replace the prop in the ship/house, and at the end of the show, he could pick up the prop and go to his next party, walk in, and start the next show!
I do think too many "show in a box" like this would create a whole new breed of "instant entertainers". Reminds me of the new craze for "instant celebrities".
SeaDawg
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Potty,
If it was going to have "celebrity" attached to it, then it would need some silicone, Botox, and a dysfunctional relationship thrown in....LOL
Crazy people take the psycho-path thru the forest...
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