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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Looking for clean 3 fly and coin across (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dan Watkins
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With Bob's routine there is a bluff vanish of the last coin. Where one coin is purposely held in the fist while a coin at the fingertips is openly placed in the fan. When the hand is opened to show the coin that was just held a few seconds ago it magically appears at the fingertips with the other coins.

Yes the left fist is holding a coin that vanishes. There is a purposeful reason to do it - to have everyone focus on the gag coin going across. It is not done to over manipulate.

If you don't want to use the bluff ending, after the 1st two flies, instead of making a coin "go back" you can immediatly do the gag of openly placing the 3rd coin in the stack. Chuckle then take the coin back. In reality take back an ungaffed coin leaving the gaff in the right hand fan. Do a one handed vanish in the left hand (yours, Kenners', Kurtz' (Latta)) and use the gaff to create the last coin's appearance.

It's a quicker routine but it kills the one hand bluff vanish.
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Ronnie Ramin
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Dan Watkins wrote:"...After he is done "manipulating" them inside his fists he pushes them out to his fingertips..."

I don't care for Garretts routine myself, but in Kenner's version of the 3 Fly he does the same thing.

Curtis Kam does a version of 3 Fly on his Palms of Steel 1. On the last coin he builds suspense by not having it appear in the fan, he discusses his reasons for this and they are very valid. I bring this up because even though it doesn't appear in the fan, I feel it can still be considered a 3 Fly routine.

Just because a routine doesn't look exactly like U3Fly doesn't mean it isn't a 3 Fly. Smile

If you want to take it to the extreme use a shell as the extra coin (allowing for clean shows throughout), and a Holdout to get rid of it after doing a visual vanish on the last coin. Voila!
Dan Watkins
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Mars I would beg to differ on your statement that Kenner's version does the same thing. Kenner's version always keeps the visible coins out at the fingertips. Yes he is pushing coins to his fingertips or ditching them into fingerpalm, but he NEVER closes his hands over all the coins to manipulate them. The coins that are supposed to stay out at the fingertips do so.

Regarding Curtis' routine from POS1: On the final fly, he holds the two coins at a fan, drops them momentarily and then pushes 3 coins back out to a fan. He never covered the coins in a clenched fist. All of Curtis' coins remained out at the fingertips during the 3 fly he did as well.

Curtis' and Kenner's versions are good versions of 3 fly and don't cover up all the coins like GT 3 Fly.

Regarding 3 fly routines looking like U3F - I never said 3 fly routines had to look like that to be a 3 fly. I just said the coins have to fly at the fingertips visibly with no cover. Most every version of 3 fly I have ever seen does this. I don't feel Garrett's did thats all.

Regarding shell use - a shell does a great job to vanish a coin, but then it causes a problem. How to you get the shell off again DURING the routine when the coins are out at your fingertips. It is hard - you have to lift a shell off. I think shells are great to start and end clean but it doesn't neccessarily allow for clean shows throughout unless you are able to nest and un-nest at will.
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Ronnie Ramin
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I didn't say what kind of shell. Smile
Jonathan Townsend
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I would go with one of the Roth routines until you find a good reason to look further. Also the Kaps larger routine with the glass and silk hankerchief is really good.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Larry Barnowsky
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The Kaps Coin and Glass Routine is, in a sense, a coins across where the coins cross over to a glass in your hand. I have been performing this for years and it is a wonderful effect. I mentioned this in a post where someone was asking about stage coin magic. Check out Routined Manipulation Finale for the routine.

:bubbly:
Chris S
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I think Ayn Rand should have a permanent home in coin magic, Jon. Such wonderful, heart-warming premises and themes. Maybe a children's show?...
May your moral compass guide you true - South West is where the honourable man fare. Pity those who lose their way...
Andy G
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Regarding the shell use in 3 fly, I've only starting looking into 3 fly recently and it seems odd to me that Gary Kurtz never actually made use of the shell to effect a vanish during the routine. Strikes me that the second coin could go very cleanly from the right by nesting it, you can very cleanly show both hands at that point. Then the gesticulated change makes a great way to dump the coin out of the shell over to the left, no difficultly getting the coin out, then the Latta vanish for the last one, can't quite show the coin as Kurtz does there however.
Jonathan Townsend
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Chris,

The Simpsons did a cute take on Ayn Rand for children. Not a fan of sarcasm or lipstick dollar signs. She was a 'funny' person.

Perhaps 'A is A' might be punned something?

perhaps the speech in Atlas Shrugged about 'so you think money is the root of all evil...' could be used effectively. Folks tend to forget the 'for the love of' that goes in front of the line anyway Smile

Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Curtis Kam
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Andy, I think the use of the shell in "Trio" is intentional. At the time that routine was published, Gary Kurtz semed to be making a conscious effort to avoid anything that looked like a conventional shell handling. The handling is designed to utilize the shell as an extra coin. It provides the extra coin when you need it, and then goes away.

I was showing him a routine of mine at a convention around this time, and I had just rested one edge of a shell onto the coin it was about to vanish, in traditional "pre-nesting" position. Kurtz says, "Ugh. That position again." Smile

Not very subtle, but it sure did make me think. Smile

What would Ayn Rand have to say about that?
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Dave Shepherd
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Since I just joined this board, and since I'm fascinated with both these plots (3-fly and closed coins across), a couple thoughts:

I got Kohler's props about a month ago or so, and I am very glad I did. I will say, though, that I have decided not to use his routine, at least not all of it. I'm not a fan of his final fly. Not the fact that it uses a bluff vanish--I actually like well-placed bluff vanishes, for their boldness and cleanness (duh...)--but rather the way that Bob takes the "bluff" coin into the hand. I was confused as to what was supposed to be happening even after watching the performance several times.

So now I'm working on the sequence Dan described above (on 12/26), and experimenting with one-hand vanishes (Kenner and Latta).

Incidentally, Paul Wilson's Crowded Coins has yet another form of "one-handed vanish" at the end, but I've found that it requires very strong misdirection to be deceptive.

Switching to close-handed coins across, has anybody taken a look at the January 2003 Linking Ring? In the British Ring Parade there's a 3-coin sequence by Steve Naylor that is very interesting, simple and straightforward. Requires a casual attitude, I expect, and a rather brisk performance pace, but it uses 3 coins only, no gaffs, and the last transpo happens into the spec's hand.
ixnay66
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In Kenner's routine the second fly does leave his fingertips. One coin falls behind his fingers and then he pushes both up to the fingertips after you've heard the second coin arive out of site. I learned his version many years ago and that's the first thing I changed.
Dr. Jakks
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Ihave always wanted a good 3 Fly effect, but for now I will do my little coins across routine called PDQ #2 by Paul Harris. Really incredible.

Jakks
DJP
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hey guys

Would for example Daryl's booklet 3 Fly III compliment Palms of Steel vol 1?

Would it be worth it getting both to guide me?

Davé
David
Geoff Latta
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"The gaffless 3F I've learned (and the original 3F, I believe) was developed by Chris Kenner and usually takes about 30 seconds to perform. Jonathan Townsend's version is called the 'Fingertips Coins Accross'"....

I think it's important to point out that Jon Townsend invented the trick; Kenner popularized it with a different handling.

Best,

Geoff
"There is a thin line between genius and insanity. I have erased this line." --Oscar Levant
Curtis Kam
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David, I use a bluff vanish as the final coin to a "closed" coins across in "Beijing Coins Across" from "Palms of Steel 2". You might like it in preference to the U3F bluff. It's not hard to rescript U3F to use this vanish instead.

I have used this as a bluff ending to an ungaffed VCA to much success.
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Doug McKenzie
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Kenner's 3 fly is by far the best. He has some very strong psycological nuances that will fool. He ends pretty clean and it looks great. The best thing about it is the fact that it isn't a tennis match. The way he does it doesn't tell the spectator "ha.. you weren't looking in the right place at the right time". Instead it is a very casual miracle. Definitely something to be witnessed first hand.
MJ Marrs
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Wait until you guys see some of Reed McClintock's 3-Fly routines! I attended Reed's lecture at the Magic Castle last Sunday; he's got some very unique routines. I particularly liked one with 50 cent pieces which end up being dropped one by one into the spectator's hands. The routines will be on his upcoming dvd's.
Jonathan Townsend
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Hello Dave,

Just looking to clean up that last flight?

If you look at the handling, you may find a great opportunity to hook/stick the **** sh*** onto a retractor and let it fly the other way out of site. This would allow you all the benefits of the published handling with only an off beat add/stick, a zip to your pocket to cover, and a quiet unstick to reset.

Some folks have taken this to the extreme of hooking a coinset for display -> sleeve or topit.

I can't tell you how odd it is to read that many people are doing Geoff Latta's move. When his book gets out you may find yourself using a lot more of his ideas.

Regards,

Jonathan Townsend
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Schaden
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You can use Curtis' Beijing Coins Across with a 3F routine to spice it up. I use Gary Kurtz mistys dream with Beijing Coins Across with his handling for 3F. I get a great reaction from it. To make it 'clean', I steal the chinese coins from a coin dropper.

For a clean coins across, I use my handling with connection of the Mutobe palm. If Mutobe lets me, I will publish it in my book. Kainoa has a really nice version on Fist of Fury. I think Curtis should pay me because I plug his DVD so much.

I also should point out that Reed has a great International 3 fly routine. I love it because it is so.... hmm... complete.

Lee
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