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joemcdull Regular user 178 Posts 
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Mastermindreader Mar 18, 2013 01:38 am I hope even Bob Cassidy is dead, his mentality, dedication, passion to mentalism live forever. Surely Doug never expose methods in public. And I doubt if Phedon be happy if someone teach Proteus the prop-less drawing dupe on YouTube. |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2555 Posts
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Phedonbilek is chastising me over a claim that I never expressed. Nor was I making reference to Spidey's lecure, which I have not even seen (and would not purchase in any case).
I never denigrated anyone for "using others' ideas without their permission." I agree with Phedon that it's next to impossible to avoid this entirely, for a variety of reasons (although the more ethical of us do the best we can to discover and seek permission for using the creations of others). What I did do was (in rebuttal to the claim of Chaz93) observe that Spidey is demonstrably guilty, on multiple occasions, of exposing the ideas of others, without permission. I then went on describe what I think of any exposure, whether it's of your own secrets or those of others (with or without their permission). Exposure is deleterious to the mystery entertainment arts, and those guilty of it should be castigated, not celebrated.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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phedonbilek Special user Greece, Cameroon, France 909 Posts
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On Aug 14, 2022, joemcdull wrote: Joe, my friend, If all you understood from my lengthy tirade is the above, that is to say: saying it's 'OK' to teach others' material on... YouTube (!), then my choice of words must have been very poor, at best. And I apologize for that. English being my third language, at least I can cling to that (easy) excuse. You know, let me clarify a bit and explain the reason why I posted the above. First, let me express my utmost respect for Doug Dyment and his contribution to our field. Doug, your latest book is nothing short of amazing, and its unanimous, indisputable (and undisputed!) success is proof, if it was ever needed. And in no way, would I ever chastise you. But even I, detected an omission in your book, one that surprised me. Don't get me wrong, I'd have never noticed anything, it's just that this particular effect is one of the very few that made a magic square appealing to me (whoever knows my taste, knows that they are NOT my cup of tea), and one that I have been knowing for quite some time, way before Calculated Thoughts. I won't give details, as this is not the point of my intervention. But that routine is brilliant. Now, did I say anything? Of course not. Besides, I'm sure you'll find ten times more omissions in Orion. I plead guilty on that charge. But the reason I said that we should all remain humble -and this should apply to the giants in our field as well- is that you put the ones exposing others' material and the ones teaching it in the same bag. Proof is our friend Joe's reply, above, asking whether I'd be happy if someone exposed Proteus on YouTube (!!). I wasn't apparently subtle enough to convey the fact that I believe it's time we should stop designating targets that easily, pointing fingers, especially when we create and eventually, knowingly or not, find ourselves guilty of using/teaching other creators' methods. Because the day it backfires on us, I trust the internet and the happy lynchers out there to remember exactly what we said or wrote. And to break that finger we once pointed. I hope I was clearer this time. If not, well... Just lynch Spidey. Tallyho! Phedon
...The only easy day is yesterday...
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EvojKam New user 27 Posts
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I think Phedon may be focus on the wrong issue due to the length thread
That "Teaching Other's Material" is just a secondary issue when " Expose Magic Secret on Youtube" is the main issue the secondary issue is bought up by Chaz93 saying that "It Is OK to Expose magic you create on YouTube " Phedon seems to focus on "Many people may possibly teaching some other's material without acknowledging it" It is a logical fallacy called straw man (hope it may not sound rude to point this out) Let me make it simple and clear, the question need to be answer is: 1. Is it ok to Expose magic OTHER create on YouTube 2. Is it ok to Expose magic YOU create on YouTube 3. Is it wrong to chastising, pointing fingers, lynching people who Expose magic on Youtube My answer on the first 1 and 2 are both NOT OK, and Phedon may clarify 1 and 2 a little bit, since the entire paragraph are not focus on ONLINE MAGIC EXPOSURE. and on three, Yes, we are chastising the one doing the same thing Val Valentino aka Masked Magician had done in the past, and I want to know why is it ok to allow Val Valentino or anyone exposing magic publicly without chastising |
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ddyment Inner circle Gibsons, BC, Canada 2555 Posts
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In an ongoing attempt to clear up some confusion on Phedon's (and perhaps others') part ...
Phedon posted: Quote:
... I felt the need to say something when I read Doug's quite... vehement post. I do believe that none of us is safe from being accused of using others' ideas without their permission. Again, I censured nobody for "using others' ideas without permission" (which, I agree with Phedon, is often impossible to avoid). So I am unsure of why I am being used as an example in Phedon's comments about this. I don't mind being chastised when it is appropriate, but in this case I don't even see why it's relevant. My vehemence was directed against conscious exposure, nothing else. And I find it concerning that Phedon is taking me to task for this.
The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More :: (order "Calculated Thoughts" from Vanishing Inc.)
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SethHoward Loyal user 280 Posts
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On Aug 5, 2022, saysold1 wrote: How many of those 10,700 posts are pushing Svenpads? Also, Spidey is not everyone's cup of tea. Threads like this remind at times what a toxic place the Café can be. Unbiased gave a review. That's it. Everybody jumping on him because they disagree. I don't agree with all of his reviews but I can tell he really is just giving his opinion. That's what a review is essentially, it's someone's opinion. If you don't like his opinion, move on, find another review channel. No need to dogpile on the guy. |
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UnbiasedMagicReviews Veteran user 397 Posts
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On Aug 15, 2022, SethHoward wrote: It's all good but I do appreciate the support. I have gotten a HUGE amount of hate mail from magicians whenever I put out a review that is not GLOWINGLY positive. How sad is that? You can't even give an honest opinion without being threatened and attacked. They get upset when I tell people to look at other older products that are just as good as the newest shiny toy that is being advertised. You are completely right. A review is just someone's opinion. People don't have to listen to them. People can make up their own minds after checking out what I recommend and watching other reviews. The issue that Brett Barry has is that he has a direct stake in this lecture as it is promoting his product. His attempt to discredit me is petty and just reflects how weak his argument is especially when people watch my reviews and see live performances of my own (something very few magic review channels include). People can see that I have experience performing the products I review, and I have no ulterior motives like the paid promotional review channels out there. We aren't always going to agree but trying to suppress someone's opinion because you don't like it is only going to do the opposite.
YouTube & Instagram - UnbiasedMagicReviews
I buy/review magic to help you make better decisions Unbiased The Definitive ACAAN -The BEST Ungimmicked ACAAN - https://youtu.be/YtAAETDIouA |
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joemcdull Regular user 178 Posts
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On Aug 15, 2022, phedonbilek wrote: It is not your choice of word is wrong, it is your understanding of the ENTIRE TOPIC wrong. Using others' ideas without permission is never the thing we are blaming, It is TEACHING MAGIC ON PUBLIC YouTube CHANNEL that we blame. And no one is blaming Doug about it except you. Your point is Don't Blame / Pointing Finger to other when we are bearing the sin ourselves and I Get it. Let rewind back to the original discussion, it was about whether the lecture content is worth $40 or not. Until The Sven Pad® guy came in and doing personal attack to the reviewer in order to protect his collusion parter and do a shameless self promotion. And that's when I point out it is Sven Pad® guy and Spidey who bear the most sin. Seth Howard above said it spot on, we are done with these toxic people who try to suppress negative voice for personal financial gain. And what Spidey had done is even more disturbing and sinful, revealing magic, mentalism secret on the public YouTube channel for personal benefit. DON'T DEFLECT THE ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM PROBLEM: It is wrong to reveal magic secret on public YouTube channel. |
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timtam New user 42 Posts
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A look through reviews on UNBIASEDMAGICREVIEWS indicates the reviewer has a wide knowledge of what magic is out there and he has a very scientific analytical mind. I don’t personally agree with his rating on the Spidey lecture, but his reviews are much more detailed and thoughtful than most I read, and he usually gives good alternative approaches when he thinks a product is weak. Most reviewers aren’t so brave, or maybe don’t want to suggest better versions to consider.
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magicthree Special user 654 Posts
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Unbiasedmagicreviews is without question the best review channel out there. Nobody is going to agree with everything he says in his reviews but he is giving his honest opinion of what HE THINKS about the product. If you don't agree, that's fine. State why you disagree with him but don't put him down because he has a different opinion than you.
His review channel is helping many magicians make their decision whether to buy or not to buy. I know I have bought many of the tricks he recommends and for that I say, "Thank you". |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3349 Posts
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On Aug 1, 2022, UnbiasedMagicReviews wrote: Yes, if we watch other review channels, we must be fools, and they must be frauds. Only, your opinion isn't drivel.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10827 Posts
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On Aug 15, 2022, SethHoward wrote: Seth that's a plain ignorantly goofy remark. Really. I joined here a LONG time ago as a hobbyist - look it up. Like 12+ years ago. I lurked long before that. Also if you care to search back you will see that I have been a helpful member here on many subjects with lengthy reviews and helpful ideas and routines on a multitude of gimmicks and releases. The SVENPADS came out around 2015. As a creator of what has become one of the world's #1 selling magic products ever (over 200,000 sold and counting), I have endeavored to answer questions and offer Nordstrom/Costco levels of service to all. I'm not going to get into it with you - but besides now being a full time performer since 2013 (I switched from a 25 year career in sales) I now also create & consult privately for many of the most famous magicians in the world which has been a lot of fun. I try to be a good force in the community. But there are those who don't like me - and I honestly don't care. I dealt with more confrontation in 25 years of sales than anything in the magic community. My customers know what I stand for, and my customers know I always do the right thing in terms of support/follow up and service. The late Bob Cassidy was a good friend and mentor when I developed the SVENPADS - a friend I spoke to weekly for years. He didn't put up with cr--p here at the Café either - spoke his mind, always offered his wisdom. Love me or hate me - I could care less. I am one of the good guys here and when I'm taking a dirt nap someday, the SVENPADS will be a legacy for the magic community - a registered trademarked name that stands for quality and innovation. Final post on this thread! I promise  Cheers
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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Bernice New user 90 Posts
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On Sep 8, 2022, saysold1 wrote: Shouldn't salesmen endeavour to foment rapport and trust with potential customers, rather than repel them? I don't trust you at all. I looked at your website once, after reading a thread with lot of criticism about you. I saw a whole array of other peoples' intellectual property (artwork by famous artists) being used in your commercial offerings. Guess what the thread was about? You whining about other people using "your" intellectual property. The posts you've made in this thread are some of the most cringe-worthy content I have seen a business owner distribute. Magic attracts some of the most singularly weirdest people I have come across. |
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Chaz93 Inner circle Texas 1838 Posts
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On Sep 9, 2022, Bernice wrote: Padgali was around way before the Svenpad, but Brett conveniently ignores that and claims to be the first to bring a sven pad to market. |
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kebmo3108 Regular user Austria 118 Posts
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On Jul 27, 2022, UnbiasedMagicReviews wrote: I agree with Unbiased Magic Reviews. Do ´nt get me wrong, I like Spidy. I think he is great and the lecture is good, but I think the rating of „my unbiased magic reviews“ is reasonable and ok, expecially in comparison with other top rated lectures and products. I do not always agree with his reviews, but that´s ok because tastes are different. For example I think Spidys Sven Pad idea is really good and a nice variation. Somehow I get the impression that the outstanding stuff gets in most cases also really good reviews, but also very often the mediocre stuff gets extremely good reviews as well ( mmmhhh ? ) It is really hard to separate the good from the mediokre (before buying) but it is that way since magic has been traded via the internet and was most likely that way before. 25 yrs ago you discussed it in a magic shop what is good or got a live demonstration. Nowadays it is a art in itself to separate the good from the bad and not chasing always the latest, „hottest“ magic tricks, which aren ´t that hot in the end. Personally I love those pros who have their bag of signature tricks (very often classics) and tons of variations on it, they are developing the concept, improving it, changing the underlying method, they can play it big or small, they are adding parts to it or changing them. Those tricks stand the test of time. I like the idea of perfecting a few outstanding things instead of being able to do 500 mediocre tricks. On the other hand I am happy for the industrie, obviously it is a good business which creates jobs. Like in other „business to consumer“ industries, the aggressive marketing and hyping of products is just part of it and it is up to the consumer to read between the lines and make the right decision. The „review shows“ inform at least about, what is in the box and give a extended product presentation . You won ´t get a review but they do help to get a better impression if the content is right for you or not. Nevertheless, I would love to see more Magic Review Shows like MUMR. |
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Chris K Inner circle 2556 Posts
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3.0/5.0 seems about right for this, if not closer to 2.5. Before everybody gets all annoyed, first, it's just my opinion, and, second, among dozens of Penguin lectures I've endured, Spidey's lecture is about average fare.
Are there a couple clever approaches? Definitely. Is there some clear... um... filler material? Definitely. Overall, average, half better, half worse, so around 2.5/5 seems fair to me. For all of those that love it, as well as those who love Prius cars, good for you, let's just say we will never agree. After all, I clearly have standards (<-- this last line is a joke). |
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KyleLeon New user Ottawa, ON 25 Posts
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A HUGE congrats to Spidey for his well-deserved win as the 2022 Penguin Magic Lecturer of the Year! I really had high hopes for this and there were some great nominees, but Spidey’s lecture was truly amazing and was packed with brilliant ideas and routines. The material speaks for itself and if you haven’t had the chance to check it out, you’re truly missing out of some killer gems!
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Stunninger Inner circle 2972 Posts
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On Feb 5, 2023, KyleLeon wrote: Fantastic! And so well-deserved! . |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3349 Posts
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On Aug 1, 2022, UnbiasedMagicReviews wrote: Today is March 15, 2023. 55 reviews, and still selling at $39.95
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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Stunninger Inner circle 2972 Posts
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On Mar 15, 2023, 252life wrote: And Spidey's lecture won Penguin's lecture of the year for 2022 and best selling lecture of 2022! . |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Mentally Speaking » » Magic Review - Spidey Penguin Live Lecture (110 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Aug 14, 2022 11:43 pm 
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