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jack_is_dead Regular user japan 173 Posts |
Well I hear this word many times..i have ordered my copy of the complete course on magic but I havent got it..probably its there but what is it actually..what its used for??i hear its difficult..i read about it and even how to do it but I don't understand..can someone explain with plain english..
one eyed man is the king in the blind land
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ClouDsss Inner circle 1799 Posts |
The pass is a classic sleight that is very useful in controlling cards. And yes it is very easy to learn but very difficult to master and use it efficiently. Its basically a control.
Sorry, explaining here would be exposure. I don have the complete course on magic but I am certain the pass should be taught there. cheerios
Think outside the box, cos people are all thinking inside now!! - ClouDsss
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BlackShadow Special user London UK 666 Posts |
If you read the various threads on Magic Café in the open forums you can see what it is: eg http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......2&19
Basically it's a method of transposing the two halves of the pack invisibly, the most common use being to transfer a chosen card from the middle to the top. If you are beginning magic I would ignore it and learn a shuffle control such as in Harry Lorraynes Magic book. (I should probably add to PM me if you want any more details as we're not supposed to discuss specifics here) |
Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
As stated above the pass is a method of controlling a card so you can keep track of it. Hard core card men use it a lot. Richard Kaufman, publisher of Genii Magazine is a master of this move. Those of us, myself included, that do card magic but not avidly so, use some of the more simple methods of control.
If you are reading books other than magic and see the word pass frequently it probably means saying things like "Hey baby, what's your sign?" Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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BerkleyJL Veteran user Chicago, IL 397 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-10 10:03, Frank Tougas wrote: Or moving ahead of a slower moving vehicle.
I need a stage name.
Joe Berkley |
Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
The pass or the shift as it is called was written about over 100 years ago. The point is that the card is put in the deck and without 1 single action it is made to rise to the top.. this is been accomplished by shifting the 2 packs while they're in the hand.
The charlier cut, now a 1 handed flourish, was orginally a pass and Gerry Griffin states this very clearly on ccg dvd 7;) btw this is a hard move not for beginners:) |
Thoughtreader Inner circle Calgary, Alberta, Canada 1565 Posts |
Once you learn the pass you have a very powerful card control that is extremely useful. Expert Card Technique (Hugard and Braue), The card Magic of Paul LePaul, and many more will teach you various "passes". Practice it until you have mastered it and you will never regret it, especially if you have several in your arsenal. I myself use the riffle pass, the turn-over pass and the spread pass a lot.
PSIncerely Yours, Paul Alberstat |
BlackShadow Special user London UK 666 Posts |
The turnover or Herrman pass is suitable for card people who haven't reached the heights of dedication. It still requires much effort but good results are more easily achievable.
I'd practice charlier cuts and kick cuts in abundance and you'll get a good feel for the way packets move which will help in passes later. |
Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
I only do classic pass and riffle pass.. sumtimes a turnover(herman) or spread pass
and the 1 brad christian does in ni ja -1 trailerit isn't really a classic or riffle pass but same mechanics.. a dip pass or what is it called.. that's my favorite 1 and I never saw ne1 doing a dip pass better then brad christian:) |
Phil Thomas Inner circle Newark, Ohio 1117 Posts |
The spread pass is really good (taught by the late Gary Oulette) on his tape "Secret Deadly Weapons" very old tape if you can even still find it. It is simple, but not easy by any means. This is the one that I use. It is just a variation of the classic pass, although there are different methods of doing it.
Phil
"If we lose the sense of the mysterious, life is no more than a snuffed out candle."
Albert Einstein |
Joe Mauro Inner circle 1133 Posts |
I can't do a pass. Not that would fool anyone. I don't use cards enough to try. Here's something Mr. Michael Ammar worte on his website about the pass:
__________________________ Michael Ammar: You asked about the Classic Pass, something I spent a lot of time with years ago, but which I have since completely quit using in my routines. I see the pass as just one means to an end, and if you can accomplish what you need to do in some other way, then you should use the technique that you find most efficient as well as most effective. Ultimately, I found that none of the routines most effective for my use actually required the pass. As a result, I no longer invested time in it. Others, however, see the pass as a 'rite of passage'. This type of magician doesn't see the pass as a tool, but as a way of distinguishing those who are 'really serious' from those who are not. So this magician works on the pass for different reasons. Having invested the time to put this move into his own repertoire, he then tries to establish the pass as THE ONE MOVE that PROVES he is a REAL magician. As for whether or not the pass is truly invisible, you get into a gray area of discussion. One person I know, who even produced a video on the pass, SWEARS his pass is invisible. Yet I proved time and again I could see when he did it. I told him, "I'll look away from you at a 45 degree angle - using only the corner of my eye to see. Don't say anything, just do the pass when you think I won't expect it, and I'll tell you every single time when a pass takes place." Which I did. Incredibly, he continued to insist that I couldn't see it! So what was happening? Was I reading his mind? No. The fact is, I COULD see the action taking place, even if he had done the move 20 feet away, because, as Vernon used to say: as important as the sleight itself, is how you go into it, and how you cover it with misdirection. By trying to make it truly invisible, you misdirect YOURSELF from the real objective, which is to make it functionally invisible. Through your presentation and construction of the routine, you should create the necessary misdirection that makes any move seem invisible. Furthermore, you should do it in a way, as Erdnase used to say, "...in such a way that the most critical observer won't even SUSPECT, let alone detect, the action." The bottom line: if the magic you want to perform requires you use the pass, then you can, and should, master the pass. But remember what makes the pass invisible isn't speed alone - it depends on the mind just as much as it does on the eyes. A lot of guys use the Classic Pass to control one card - which is like using a sledge hammer to kill a fly. Why move all 52 cards to get the one? I much prefer the Hofzinser Spread Control, because you only move the one card, and use the other 51 cards as cover. So, as you can see, I haven't taught you how to do the pass. There are many sources for that in print and video. I've tried, instead, to share some broader thoughts on the issue, and hopefully to make you think about it as well
~Joe
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
Still, I have several card tricks which can't be substituted with any other sleights than Pass.
As an example, 'Pass the Sandwich' in Earl Nelson's "Variations" can't be substituted by any other mean. However, such tricks are very few. That is a point for me to hesitate wheather I should recommend beginners to master Pass. Hideo Kato |
Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
The pass works for me soo why does everybidy recomment not to use it:S:S its a better way to control card then lets say .. a double undercut_-
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Frank Tougas Inner circle Minneapolis, MN 1712 Posts |
I would have to agree with the Ammar quote given by Joe Mauro above. And with all due respect to Hideo Kato, you are an excellent and talented expert with the pasteboards. I would naturally expect you to have some effects in your repertoire that require the pass.
I don't think people here are saying discount the pass as a viable move, it is tried and true, were this question to be put in the cards forum the responses would probably be a lot different. It is just that the average "generalist" type magician, (i.e.) someone who does not specialize or work exclusively in card magic, is less likely to use the pass. Frank Tougas
Frank Tougas The Twin Cities Most "Kid Experienced" Children's Performer :"Creating Positive Memories...One Smile at a Time"
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Erdnase27 Inner circle 2505 Posts |
Yeah but I mean.. that story from Ammar.. every time he did a pass I saw it.. wel "everytime he did a double undercut" or a "cut to the table" whatever I see it aswell-_- and you know sumthing has changed witht hte order of the deck.. with a pass you can see perhaps sumthing(usually I use misdirection also so theuy wont see it at all) but not sumthigt that big that you know a card has been controlled:)
ok it isn't a move you cant do without but I mean its just a good fast way of controlling a card |
Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-11 12:03, Frank Tougas wrote:I would naturally expect you to have some effects in your repertoire that require the pass. I can recollect only three tricks in which I use Pass in my repertoire. I never use Classic Pass in its calssical form. As Mr. Alberstat mentioned, I always use a kind of Coverd Pass. (Doing Pass while you do amother move). I am very bad at Classic Pass and my Pass is very visible if I did it without any cover. For 'Pass the Sandwich', I use Riffle Pass as used by Earl Nelson and Frank Simon. In this trick, it is OK that Pass is partially visible because the moving of face up Jack from top to middle is a part of the effect. You can even say before Passing, "Look, you can see the Jack moves!" In my creation 'Four Aces in Thirteen Cards', I Tenkai Palm upper cards and give a gesture with left hand which holds the lower half, then I place the left hand cards on palmed right hands cards. This method can be used because I use only 13 cards for the trick. Third trick I use Pass is one on one type trick. I riffle the cards in Peek position and spectator call Stop! When I lower the deck, I do Pass. In this Pass, Pass is 100% invisible because spectator's eyes are facing to me and the Pass is covered by moving of hands even if spectator watch my hands. Although I don't use them in my repertoire, I use Turn Over Pass in some cases when turning over of the deck is natural. There are many magicians who says Pass is a good Control. I imagine those magicians usually perform one on one or for few on-lookers. It's a good Control for such magicians, but never work for magicians like Mr.Ammar who performs for rather a large audience. Hideo Kato P.S. jack_is_dead-san, you are lucky you didn't know Pass. Don't start to practice it. Wait til you had enough experience of watching visible Passes. If you start it, you can't stop it! |
alson Regular user 143 Posts |
Well ,you know I did not know the name of move. When I first started in magic along time ago ,the magician ,who was an escape artist/magician made me learn that move . I was young, I don't know if he was trying to see how interest I was in learning magic or what , but I learn the pass it took some time but I did it.
When I seen this post ,I had to look it up it has been so long ago that I learned the pass I didn't remember the name . And Also I really don't do a lot of cards. Alson |
Steve Friedberg Inner circle 1402 Posts |
Quote:
On 2005-03-10 13:08, BlackShadow wrote: Oh, come on. Geez...I always thought the idea was to make the move, whatever it was, seamless and invisible to the spectator. I guess, since I use the Herrmann (cq) pass as one of many sleights to achieve that goal, I must not be dedicated. I hang my head in shame.
Cheers,
Steve "A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland |
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