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Bill Scarlett Veteran user Vermont 366 Posts |
Yesterday I did a show in a medium sized auditorium and wanted to use my new fog machine for a levitation. I didn't use it this time because the building manager said I might set off the fire alarm and that is the last way I would want to end the show. But...I want to use my new fog machine and I think it will enhance the effect greatly. I just don't want to have the fire department closing my shows.
I would greatly appreciate some advice from those of you who have used fog in your shows on how you have dealt with this situation. I have a fogger that uses the glycol based fogging solution. It does have settings to control the output but the fog does not stay low to the ground. Thank you in advance. |
Kevin Ridgeway V.I.P. Indianapolis, IN & Phoenix, AZ 1832 Posts |
Bill...
Here is what we do with our show to prevent this. In our rider sent out ahead of time, we inform them that we are using fog and haze. They are then instructed to contact the building manager and make them aware of this. We then usually get a call from the building manager. We let them know what we are using and one of three things happens at that time. 1. He says they use fog and haze and have no problem 2. He says they have sensors in the wrong places, in the ventilation system, etc and they cannot be turned off. 3. He says he has no idea what they have and what will happen. Ok, lets go over each scenario... 1. No problem 2. Big problem...may be able to overcome, use info from #3 3. We get to the venue and their system is put on test and the local fire department is informed of this, if they are monitored. We then test the fog and haze. If no alarm goes off we are good. If it does go off, call the fire department...let them know it was in test mode and everything is fine at the venue. In this case, the system should be kept on test mode and put on silent. A fire watch should be posted in the theatre. Hopefully the system has different areas and only the performing area is put on test and silent. Then the system is put back into normal mode after the show. A person with the key should be accesible at all time during performance. The worst possible sensors are the ones in the ventilation system. These will be hard to deal with. However even worse than those, although they can be dealt with are the Cafétoriums and gymtoriums that were desighend by an architect and not a theatre person. These brain surgeons put sensors right over the stage. They can most likely be put on test and silent. Hope that helps. Kevin
Living Illusions
Ridgeway & Johnson Entertainment Inc Kevin Ridgeway & Kristen Johnson aka Lady Houdini The World's Premier Female Escape Artist www.LadyHoudini.com www.livingillusions.com |
hugmagic Inner circle 7655 Posts |
Good information Kevin.
Guys this is how the real world operates. They could care less about our magic and fog machines.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com email-hugmagic@raex.com Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's. |
hersheymagic Regular user Harrisburg, PA 126 Posts |
Has anyone ever run into a problem with a fog or haze machine actually setting off an alarm? We use fog or haze in our show and I've never run into a problem with this. Had a stage manager that wouldn't let us hang a snow machine above on a truss for our blizzard effect, but that's another problem... dealing with in house staff LOL
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socalmagic Loyal user Los Angeles 267 Posts |
Hello,
I run into this problem at almost every venue. There are a few choices. You can have the system put on standby or test mode. Many facilities will require a fire watch (firefighters or trained personnel to observe the facility), and may notify the fire department. Any disabling of the smoke alarms can be illegal in certain areas such as LA County. I hope this helps. |
Bill Scarlett Veteran user Vermont 366 Posts |
One thing I have been warned about, and Kevin mentioned, is the smoke alarms that are hidden in ventilation systems. Those can be a real pain because they are not visible but can cause problems if the fog goes in the intake. Only the building manager would know about those.
Thank you to everyone for their time in answering my question with such detail. This is the Café at it's best! |
Dan McLean Jr aka, Magic Roadie Special user Toronto, Canada 804 Posts |
If the local fire department or fire marshall have a system in place to allow for the deactivation of the alarms (as described by Kevin of Living Illusions), then follow their plan exactly. If they don't then do not interfere with the proper function of the alarms.
Thanks very much for your help with this, Kevin. As usual, your knowledge and experience help everyone here! Respectfully, Dan.
Dan McLean Jr
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socalmagic Loyal user Los Angeles 267 Posts |
One thing that has not been mentioned is covering the alarms only on the stage with a small bowl and tape. In fact, many alarms already have covers. This allows you to keep the entire system active (which is safer). Since there are several crew already on stage, they serve as a fire watch. Although in some localities it can be illegal, I have had several fire marshalls inspect our facility, and none has ever objected to it. The alternative is to disable an entire facility, instead of just the stage. This is more dangerous if a fire starts in another part of a facility (which has happened to me once -- a kitchen fire).
Brock Edwards |
magicalmischief Loyal user Massachusetts 239 Posts |
One thing that might be helpful is using dry ice instead of fog. Dry ice is heavy and will stay down on the floor. Is not light enough to rise to most sensors. The effect is kind of creepy as it mimicks fog in cemeteries and such. With the right lighting, could be very effective.
Just a thought.
Seems to me that death is just natures way of telling us to SLOW DOWN!
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Magic Nathan Regular user 110 Posts |
Correct Magical Mischief,
Dry ice won't set off smoke alarms as it is not smoke. Its hydrogen and will evaporate into the air. Smoke machines produce smoke by pushing a small stream of oil over a hot wire which burns it and creates the smoke. Dry ice wont hang in the air however and won't highlight lighting effects like the smoke machine will. A hazer might be the answer however. Anybody out there experience a problem with hazers and smoke detectors ? Nathan |
magicalmischief Loyal user Massachusetts 239 Posts |
Nathan,
Thanks for the confirmation. I thought that was the case...it had been over 18 yrs since high-school so I couldn't remember from the last time we used it there... But thanks for making me feel a little intelligent. LOL (especially considering the other discussion both of us have been involved in,...LOL)
Seems to me that death is just natures way of telling us to SLOW DOWN!
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MDS Special user USA 528 Posts |
I have had this problem in the past. I was performing in a hotel on a ballroom style stage and didn't even think about the fog triggering the fire alarm. Thankfully it didn't go off until after my performance, but it was still embarrassing.
Matthew |
yosef_dov Loyal user NYC area 242 Posts |
Greetings...
Just a minor correction to Magic Nathan's statement above "Dry ice won't set off smoke alarms as it is not smoke. Its hydrogen". Dry ice is actually carbon dioxide. Hydrogen is EXTREMELY flammable (remember the Hindenburg!)... JN |
drmgc New user Boston, MA 21 Posts |
Having dealt with a fire alarm going off first hand: not fun! I used a hazer for the first time for this show and the fire alarms went off 5 minutes before show time. Fire trucks and police arrived with seconds. One of the problems was that the haze was "hanging" around to long so when the reset the alarams the haze would just trigger it again. Not fun. Taught me to find out about fire alarms before hand!
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Kline Veteran user 361 Posts |
I agree with Kevin and Dan ( Hey there Dano ! ) - We usually insist that the system be shut down - this is usually done without very much uproar since we usually ( or the promoter )absorbthe cost to have a fire official on site the day of the show.
Always check with the local fire department !
Steven Kline
<BR><BR>www.stevenkline.com <BR><BR>www.stevenklineproductions.com Follow me on Twitter @steveklinemagic |
Grandillusionsmagic Loyal user 270 Posts |
Anything can sset off some of the newer allarms. to much dust, balloons fog, haze, cofettie, ..... it depends on the setup of the system. at our mall they have lazers along the high open areas that if a couple balloons are lost they could set off the alorm (silent)then if anything else sets it off in the area it will set off the alarm and strobes. I was't allowed to use my confetty launcher because it could set off the alarms. also when we had a shop there the clause said we could not helium balloons, without filling out a form so they can turn the system to silent for the area around our store.
then at school we had some work done durring the summer in the theatre. that fall when we closed the curtains for the first time it set off the alarms. the lazers didn't make it to the other side of the alarm so it set it off, these alarms are often in air vents,before the filters, anything that can fit in the vent (through the cover) could set off the alarm, so confettie could be sucked into the system and set it off. so anything could set off the alarm. |
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