I realize the moral dilemma that performing magic, and especially, mentalism poses for the cynic. It is during the performance only that we must project the ideas that we believe in what we are doing, and that it is real. This does not mean that we should start cults.

I, for one, do not believe that mentalists should preface their acts with long disclaimers that say that what they are doing is not real. I don't believe a mentalist should make any claims whatsoever. This is why I don't approve of John Edward or Sylvia Brown. They are making false claims. I would feel much better with them if they made no claims at all and just did their number. But then, they wouldn't have followers, would they.

I don't believe magicians should have disclaimers, either. You don't see Copperfield going onstage with a disclaimer such as, "Ladies and Gentlemen, all of the things you are about to witness are simply illusions. They are caused by Mr. Copperfield's great skill as an actor, a dancer and illusionist, as well has his ability to get John Gaughan, Jim Steinmeyer and Don Wayne to build nice toys for him for huge amounts of money. So sit back, relax and enjoy 'The Gyrations and Expensive Toys of David Copperfield!' "

Imagine how you would feel if you saw this:

The scene is a large Broadway Theatre, right before the show starts, an actor steps out on stage and says, "Good evening, Ladies and Gentlemen. My name is Richard Burton. Well, actually, it's not Richard Burton, it's one of those Welsh names that most people here can't pronounce -- I changed it to make it easier on you. Tonight's play is Shakespeare's Hamlet, which takes place in Denmark, in Elsinore castle. Actually, the play was not originally by Shakespeare. He nicked the plot line from someone else, but he did a good job of fleshing it out. Also, this is not a real castle. It's a stage set. This stuff that looks like stone -- some of it is canvas and the rest is styrofoam which has been painted to look like stone. Also, during the sword fightes, we won't really be stabbing each other. Thank you. I hope you enjoy the play."

I'd be heading to the cashier to ask for my money back. Even though Burton has been dead for a long time.

[quote]On 2005-03-18 14:14, RCarruth wrote:


Then there was the tourist who was on the set of "The Flying Nun" and asked Sally Field if she'd hover over her kids while she took their picture.

And the woman who stopped Dan Blocker and told him his "Paw" had to get rid of the Chinese man and get some good home cooking into that ranch!

Real magicians make real magic. It is not always the magic of reality. Sometimes it is beyond the realm of the natural.
What we do is mythical. Mythical does not mean false, but illustrating things beyond the factual.
Facts are more limited than truth.
But, if we use our abilities in ways that cheat or hurt others, then what we do is not magical at all.
Our task is to bring a bit of this real magic into the lives of others.
People like John Edward are not magicians. They are frauds who have taken some of our effects and used them(usually not very well) to bilk people out of their money.
The same type of things can be done with the tools of other crafts.
Unfortunately, people who claim to be what they are not can hurt the craft.

In what respect?

Let`s get real,,,,all Magicians are liars,,mostly the bigger the liar you are the better Magician you portray.
If anyone has a problem with accepting this on a moral or any basis,then they should not be performing magic.

Example >>>> Geller,,,,

You are the judges.

Maybe you are, but I'm not, and neither is Jerry Andrus. Jerry is the most honest person in the world. When he does a card trick, if he has switched a card out and is returning it to the deck, he won't say, "I'll put your card into the deck." He says, "I'll put the card into the deck."

I used to think that all magicians are liars. I said this to Punx. He corrected me as follows: "We are not liars. We are storytellers."

I agree with him. Geller is a liar. He claims to have supernatural powers. I make no such claims. I tell stories.

Read the preface of Once Upon a Time. It's called, "When the Fairy Tale Encountered the Truth." It explains how a fictional story can sometimes contain more truth than a group of cold facts.

I won't elaborate on it any further. I'd rather sell books!

Hey can you keep a secret? So can I! Remember we have to kill them if we tell them!!!!And they so hate it when they know how easy it is!!!!

I don't think what we do should be dismissed as "it's only a trick" as what we do, when it is very effective, is transend normalcy for someone. Certainly don't claim supernatural powers and do assuage their fears, but do it with respect for you and your craft.

I for one have fun with never telling a lie in the context of my performance. I do say I am putting your card in the middle of the deck. It may not stay there very long, but it was there once, however briefly.

Part of my ability is to convince people that what I am doing is real, at least for the length of time I am performing. I don't think anyone really beleived Mel Gibson, really was there at the time of the crusifixion, but was still teleported to that time by the craft of the performance and special effects. This is the willing suspension of disbelief. Later, under cold reflection, they realize that they really couldn't have found willing participants to actually be nailed to a cross for our entertainment pleasure, but they sure squealed and averted their eyes at the moement.

Kirk G (from LA and not shot at yet)

No matter how you twist it we as magicians lie,,,the art of deception forms the base of magic,,,,to deceive,,,,to perform is to sell the lie.The better you can sell that lie the more"Magical" the result.

So, was Richard Burton a liar when he performed Hamlet?

I don't think so.

And I don't think I'm a liar when I perform.

If you had read the reference I gave you, you might have a different point of view, but since you refuse to do so, I don't believe I need to read any more of your posts.

Bullheadedness based upon deliberate ignorance is inexcusable.




There are two places that I differ with McBride about magic. One is that you must know when not to do it. Magic is an art form. You don't see opera singers belting out arias for the waitstaff at the casino. There are times when you, as an entertainer, must take a back seat to what is going on around you.

I have a friend who is one of the worst offenders when it comes to public displays of magic in places where it may not be wanted. He will sit down in a restaurant, pick up a spoon, bend it into the shape of a pipe and smoke it. Interesting, but the people around him don't think it's magic. They think he is a loony. And he is a seasoned pro.

I'm not saying you should not be ready to perform anytime, anywhere. But that doesn't mean you HAVE to perform anytime, anywhere.

My deliberate ignorance is based on the findings of Ken Brooke,Fred Kaps,Tommy Cooper,David Nixon etc,,all who have made mention of selling the lie for entertainmenr useage.

These are people who new what they were at,they made the grade,they performed the magic with no sense of delusions of grandure.

On this point I respect your views, but must agree to disagree.
Yes I have read many references to the contrary but form my own conclusions based on my own findings.
I will not comment further on this matter.