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Rodney Massey Loyal user pickering, ontario 231 Posts |
"I love books more than anything. It is my belief that the only way to learn magic is from good magic books... When you learn a routine by reading a book, you are free to imagine how it is done because you have not yet seen it performed and therefore it stimulates you to develope your own presentation and style.
By reading you really have to work through the material to be able to understand it's content, and therefore the brain is forced into action, making the experience almost spiritual... I don't care much for videos." |
Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
I have nothing to add to this. I just wanted to make it 3 out of 3 on the Tamariz thread.
ME
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Rodney Massey Loyal user pickering, ontario 231 Posts |
Layman would be a lot better served if there were more like you, Mark.
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Kard16 Regular user 144 Posts |
I have to disagree with this. I am a hands on and visual learner, I need to see and hear before I can do. Though books leave you to the imagination, sometimes that is not a good thing because you really can't see the trick performed by reading. It is all on preference, for me it is video's, for you guys it may be books...
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Rodney Massey Loyal user pickering, ontario 231 Posts |
That's the whole point, Kard16, you don't see it performed. You say you need to see and hear before you can do. Before we take this any further- with all due respect- do you have trouble learning from the written word? If so, then certainly you must rely on videos. Unfortunately, all you will ever learn are the tricks. However, if you are able to learn from books, you will learn so much more.
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Garrett Nelson Special user 644 Posts |
I think to categorically dismiss videos is just a bad idea.
Let me give an example or two. “A picture is worth a thousand words.” If that is the case, what is a video worth? Or should we draw the line at pictures. A video is one step too far? Would it be okay if a video was simply broken down into frames and printed in a book(with thousands of pictures)? Or is there a limit to how many pictures one should have? Perhaps is it the audio that is the problem? Would this mean a book on tape of sleights is forbidden? Before anyone gets upset, or thinks I am trying to be difficult, I will openly and freely admit I am being silly with these examples. But why limit yourself to books if you might learn faster, or better from a video? Or an audio tape, I suppose. I hear the argument that people tend to emulate the performer who’s video they see. That is bad to an extent, but it is also good to an extent. If someone is brand new in magic, and they are trying to be like the guy on the tape they saw, is that really SO bad? At least they realize they need a presentation of some type early on, even if it is pirated. I would rather have someone tell me a story they got about some space craft than have them say, “Ok, we put it here. Then we cut. Then we take this….”, which is a “presentation” I am sure we have all heard. Don’t get me wrong. I love books. I believe the saying is, “The best secrets are in books.” I agree. And I agree that books are extremely valuable, and allow the imagination to flow. But, I learn better from video. There. I said it. I have a good aptitude for reading, I would say, I learn well from books. In fact most of the time, I would prefer to buy a book over a video. But I learn better from videos. And I don’t just mean things like the pass (I don’t know if I ever would have had much success without video and personal instruction on the pass). If I want to learn Apex Aces, I will learn it much more quickly from a DVD than from a book. I can go through it, follow along, and I have the moves down in a couple of tries. I don’t have to go back and reread. I don’t have to worry (much) about a bad description. I don’t have to look back through the text to make sure I wasn’t suppose to be holding the deck in a different position (or read between the lines to see what was left out). I can just follow along. I can see what is suppose to be going on. Now let's stop right here. At this exact point, where am I? If I had read the book, I would now be at the point where I know the moves. If I watched the video, I am at the exact same place, but I did it in less time. Why did I write all this on a topic that has been thoroughly exhausted in many forums, even this one, already? Because of this quote: Quote:
On 2002-10-02 23:03, Rodney Massey wrote: I have no doubt that some people lack the ability to sever an idea already impregnated into their mind from their imagination (i.e. get an idea out of their head so they can think of another). However, I find it trite to assume that all people are this way just because some are. Believe it or not, some people can actually learn from a video, then come up with their own presentation. I think claiming that people who learn from video are only capable of learning “tricks” is quite a brash claim, and one that Mr. Tamariz would not agree with. |
metaphyzix Regular user 129 Posts |
I learn from both books and videos, depending on what's available... Not everything in print is out on video, and vice versa. But there are people who rely on visuals to learn and absorb. These people lack the attention span to sit through a book and would rather watch it on tape. Yes, I agree that printed works do reveal more of the psychology involved, but speaking of psychology, do realize that there are people who are visual learners. So with that, I totally agree with Garrett, to completely dismiss videos altogether is absurd.
For example, when I was starting out in sleight of hand, I had a hard time understanding a lot of the finger positioning and what-not involved in the mechanics of certain sleights when I was reading books. When I watched videos, I learned much faster because I saw what the performer was doing, and what I needed to do to accomplish the same feat. I highly doubt a beginner will absorb the material in the pages of Expert At The Card Table. Read into Juan Tamariz's quote... It's his BELIEF that the only way to learn is through books. One man's belief does not make it fact. That's why we are all here discussing this. But if Tamariz doesn't care much for videos, why does he have an entire set of his magic on tape? |
Stefan S. Loyal user 235 Posts |
There is one more source for learning, which is also one of the best ways but also one of the most difficult ones! That is by having a teacher, or as Tamariz puts it, masters!
But surly today some of the great masters are only accessable through books, wich is great! In my opinion books are really great, and one should not abandon them, because you will miss tons of stuff that will never be on video! But I also would not want to miss video, but, I prefer performance videos of people which I will not be able to see, either because they are dead or the distance is simple to big! Cheers Stefan |
Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts |
Although I have a decent number of videos, practically every one of my sleights and routines were either taught to me in private instruction or from a book (or a creation of my own).
My magic videos are more or less for my entertainment. No doubt they are good instruction tools for people but they are definitely not my medium for learning.
ME
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Eddy Special user Manchester 582 Posts |
[quote]On 2002-10-03 00:05, GarrettDN wrote:
I think to categorically dismiss videos is just a bad idea. Let me give an example or two. “A picture is worth a thousand words.” This is indeed very true and cannot be dismissed. I agree with the fact that it is good to read a lot to get to the real essence of the trick, yet it can only be more beneficial for you, to use videos, etc... also. I have really benefitted from watching vids so much. After having learnt something, then actually seeing this sleight/trick visually, it helps, whether it be to see how it looks in the hands of a pro or to see whether you are performing it correctly. It is just beyond me that you believe vids are of no use.
La magie, c'est ma vie
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Geoff Weber Inner circle Washington DC 1384 Posts |
This is a related thought... If you watch the movie "Harry Potter" without reading the book, and then go and read the book afterwards... when you are reading... are you picturing the characters and scenes as you saw them in the movie? I must admit that I am guilty of this. When I get to a chapter that was omitted from the movie, my imagination finally gets to work. This is the same type of thing that happens with magic videos versus magic books... I admit that the video is usually easier, but easier is not always better.. Its much harder (but not impossible) to inject your own ideas and creativity into a routine learned from a video.
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thehawk Inner circle 2275 Posts |
Everybody has a different way to learn. Some believe that books are the best while others like myself like videos. There is no better way I believe than to see it done on video before a live audience. You see the effect and the response.
With books you can only imagine the effect and response but still lots prefer the written word. If that is your belief that books are better for you,great but others do like visual on video. Most magicians don't have the opportunity to learn from masters so you have to see why they like videos. |
Rafa Regular user Costa Rica 102 Posts |
I'm a minority here, but if english is not your native language it's VERY difficult to follow instructions from a book (at least if your english is not that good).
When I first started in magic I bought some books (Erdnase and Expert at the Card Table, I think). I started trying to learn the basics and according to my version of the instructions, I needed 5 extra inches in each finger (needless to say about the sixth finger) to make a DL. Videos made all the difference. My point is not my english difficiency but the fact that you can see what is happening faster, and learn it the right way. I've heard some magicians say 'I learned this in the book XX, but who really teched me how to do it right was XX'. I don't know if you've had this experience with books, something like 'I've performed this trick for a long time, but it wasn't until I saw X video that I understood how it was acomplished'. :cyclops: |
Lance Pierce Special user 878 Posts |
My first love is books over video, but the truth is that a well-rounded performer -- a master performer -- will learn from all sources, whether written, video, or anything else. Above all, though, the best instruction seems to be personal time with someone who understands the thing you're trying to learn.
Cheers, TCR |
Mike Robbins Elite user Anchorage, Alaska 447 Posts |
(sigh) This subject must be in at least a dozen threads here.
To say that learning anything from a book is better for you than a video, audio tape, or personal instruction is fine. But to say the same is true for everyone is absurd. As a professional trainer for over 20 years in the military and corporate life, I can tell you that there are different learning styles. Some people are visual, some audio, some kinesthetic, some are combinations. The best learning vehicle for someone is the one that matches their learning style. Personally, I'm visual and kinesthetic. I learn best from good personal instruction. Barring that, videos work best for me. And yes I come up with my own presentation and style. I'm aware enough to not become a clone of the video instructor. Mike
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.
Shakespeare |
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