Roland, I thought you didn't do a card trick in your performance? ...hmmm

I too really like the idea about putting the table together, aranging all your stuff, that seems really good and a good way to get attention. Somewhat like a Band on stage tuning there stuff and organizing everything.

I agree again though with Mr. Muggle, your routine needs to build, build, build. If your routine does that, fine.
Additionally, I think that the cups and balls has a built in finale, unlike a card trick... the cups and balls is a real suprize, and is a great image for people to look at as they drop 5 or 10 dollars into the hat-- seing 3-6 oranges on the table. That is really an amazing image. As Jonathan Townsend once pointed out, so now you have these big balls on the table, now what are you going to do? Putt them away? I guess that if you go into a juggling bit, that's fine, but If you merely produce them, get the appluase, and pull out a silk or something it is just very awkward. That is another reason I don't like thhe Cups and Balls first.

If it works for you though, that's fine.

Guys,
What an interesting thread. It shows that in performing arts, there are no hard and fast rules. Gazzo, Bill Palmer, and Pete Biro are very fond of saying that you shouldn't juggle the final load balls at the end. In the case of a street performer, like Gazzo and Bill were, I understand what they are saying. You want to hit them with something very strong, preferable with something that leaves physical evidence in view, and then pass the hat.

I also agree, that for most close up magic routines, you do not want to produce the final loads and then immediately pick them up and juggle them. You'll kill the applause for the end of the cups routine if you do that. Whether you can build to a big round of applause with your juggling depends entirely on how good a juggler you are.

Having said that, years ago, when I was actively performing at magic conventions, I closed my close up set with the cups and balls, and then I did juggle the final loads. However, you have to understand the context. I always tried to get someone else to put my props in place. (I worked from saddlebags which just needed to be put over my chair and then my close up pad put in place.) When I was introduced, I entered juggling 3 balls. Where possible, I had some good up tempo music playing. It was a good opening. I stopped, the music stopped, and I said: "Hello fellow jugglers." The guy that introduced me would come running over and whisper in my ear. I'd try to look surprised, and then say: "Sorry, wrong convention. Hello fellow magicians." Then I'd sit down and do a card trick or whatever I had planned.

At the end of the routine, I would do my cups and balls. When the final loads would appear, I would stand and acknowledge the applause. This appeared to be the end and it was important to let the audience release their tension by giving you the final round of applause for your act. But, I wouldn't exit. When the applause died down, I'd pick up the load balls, start to juggle, and say: "This looks like where I came in and that means I've seen the whole show. So, you have too... thanks for being a great audience." The music would kick in, and I'd exit juggling. It made a nice frame for the act, and it worked well.

But, you have to finish the cups and balls and let the audience give you your due first. I'm not a busker, but if I was, I certainly would let the cups and balls be the end. Gazzo has the perfect ending. He produces the melon from his hat. It's a socko ending, and it brings the hat into play. When he lifts the hat to reveal the melon, he's alreadying holding the hat! He waits for the usually strong round of applause, and goes right into his hat-passing schtick.

Dennis Loomis

Hey guys
As the starter of this thread I'm surprised to see where it has gone. Interesting though sidetracked.
I want to clarify my concept slightly. I do consider myself to be an outstanding juggler (that means that juggling is not an issue to me). I do also see myself as a good sleight of hand artist. In this cups and balls routine I do not intend on juggling the final loads. Its difficult to explain in words, but here goes.
I was playing with my Cups and and a few different things that I was considering useing for a final load. One of them was a two inch stress ball (you know the kind that you get when you give plasma) It's heavy, translucent and easy to handle. In fact I've used it as a Billard ball on stage. Anyway, through some creative play I found that I can throw that ball straight up into my cup and secertly trap a normal C&B ball above the ball inside the cup. sounds wierd, but it's slick, and invisible.
That is one of the moves that I've been playing with, there are several more. In essence I am still doing a cups and balls routine, but employing my juggling abilities to add to the magic.
My question still remains, whats the best cups (for the money)? I need a set cups without a chop and can take a beating. So far the Phoenix cups appeal the most. I like the look and shape of them. I've never handled them, so I don't know the weight and rotation pattern of the cup.
Thanks for the thoughts
Redhead Juggler

For any juggling with cups, you need a heavy cup, so the ones that are CNC rather than spun will be size for size heavier. However, for trapping balls in the cup (which incidentally has been done before), you want a tall tapered cup rather than the traditional stumpy design. The tall Jim Riser Chop Cup, for example, was specifically designed for hiding a large load in the roof of the cup while using it as a normal cup... My personal suggestion would be to first sort out the routine, and then have the cups made to fit what you want to do. For example, for my chop cup routine, I had a local wood turner knock up a cup for me. After playing around with it for about 18 months, I had a routine I was happy with. I then turned to Auke VanDokum and asked him to make me the cups and balls to the exact specs that I needed. Auke came back with a superb set that did exactly what I wanted to do.

So, in short, don't try to find an immediate solution. Experiment.

Bye for now

Harold

Van Dokkum now has a traditional cup that is CNC machined. It's very heavy for its size, but might work well for a cup juggling sequence.

Mid-routine juggling is hard to routine into cups and balls because the the constant misdirection/ direction of attention in the routine. A quick flick of a cup will "prove" it's empty, but that's about where it ends in terms of building on the magical aspects. I tried to... juggler, flair bartender (shaker tins...) and magician. The only moves I use now are a few thumb rolls, and throwing the cups off the bottom of the stack with a spin to the other hand hiding the nested ball.
Paul

Charlie frye....


awesome


koz