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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
I have narrowed the jumbo cup choice to either Gazzo Cups or Animal (regular, not 'Super Animal') Cups.
Question to you street performers who are familiar with both: Would you consider the difference in size between the 2 cups significant from the *audience's* point of view? Perhaps you had Animals, but switched to Gazzos and found that the audience could see them better. Or you had Gazzos, switched to Animals and no one noticed a thing. Like to hear your thoughts. Mark
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
It all depends on what you want to be able to load. The Gazzo cup is about the same size as a Paul Fox Chick Cup. Get whichever one is available most quickly. It may be a moot point, anyway.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
I bought Super Animals, and they are indeed quite large. Except for the convenience of using very large loads, I could have gotten away quite nicely with the standard Animal size. If you're choosy about your fruit buying, they should give you no problem at all. In fact, I probably could do better with a smaller size. The Gazzos and Supers are rather hard to get used to at first, but I'm getting better the more I practice with them.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Hmmm.... we seem to be straying from my original question - I am not concerned about loads at all, nor handling, but the size of the cups and if the difference in the aforementioned is enough of a difference *from an audience point of view to make a difference visually*.
Dave, I'm not sure if I am reading your post clearly, as I am not sure you are addressing my question or something a bit different. Knowing you need larger cups on the street for the sake of the audience's need to see the props, do you feel that a Regular Animal and a Gazzo are close enough in size to each other to make one say, "It doesn't matter which one you use, they'll both be seen just fine." Thanks, Mark
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Okay, I'll answer the question a little differently. The Phoenix cups are big enough to see in street performance. The Phoenix cups are much smaller than either the Gazzo or the Animal cups.
You aren't going to be performing on a football field. You will be performing close enough to the people for them to see the cups. The cups and balls ISN'T about the cups. It's about the balls. You can use fairly large balls with either cup. SO IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE!!!!!!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
THANK YOU!!!
:) Now it is clear to me why your answers involved loads. You see, I fully realize I would not be performing on a football field. I have not yet seen a street performance of the cups and balls (though I have seen photos, with specs at various distances), hence the question. With my background in theatre, the size of props is often discussed. The answer usually lies in the size of the theatre - how far back does the prop have to 'play'. Bill, your last post answered the question I had perfectly. Thanks.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I was getting the drift when you restated the question.
Here's a bit more -- use white balls, so they contrast with the background as much as possible. Most of the time, you want the spectators somewhere between 10 and 25 feet from you. This is a fairly close distance. Any more, and they can bolt when the hat pass starts. The exception would be in places like the festivals in Boston where the audience looks very mobile, but tends to stay for a show. A rule of thumb on cup design is you figure out the loads and build the cups around them. This is why I mentioned loads. BTW, the Riser jumbos, which are quite small for a jumbo cup are still big enough to play on the street.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Chessmann Inner circle 4242 Posts |
Thank you, Bill, for setting my path a bit straighter.
I was thinking about Gazzo's Soccer Balls yesterday, that the white and black mix would be not only offer good contrast, but be fairly eye-catching as well. Unfortunately, Riser's Jumbos are sold out, according to his website. Thanks again, sir. Mark
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
You are most welcome.
BTW, the black and white soccer balls might work. You might find baseballs more visible. I will PM you a solution.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
doug brewer V.I.P. 1142 Posts |
The soccer balls are excellent, and much better than a single color type (my opinion). I have been using either the red or white Roger's baseballs for a long time, but for a large crowd (I mean over 100), I believe the baseballs to be simply too small against the cup. I recently worked Hank Lee's convention and saw Gazzo's c&b's there. I sat at the back of a large banquet room and had no problem seeing the balls during the entire routine. I bought them soon after.
note: The soccer balls ARE large and will not nest on top of say, the Phoenix cups. But they work fine for the larger cups I'm using for my formal shows. |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I love the Babes.
I would have one slight request if I were to have gary make me a set. That would be to have a "sharper" lip at the top depression to so tipping the cup back with the wand would be easier, a la the Cellini Cups. The cellini cups tip back so nicely due to their shape. I love that about them.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Bill,
you're the expert re cups, so pls. allow me a question.. I've studied the diff. types at your site carefully. What I like the most actually are the original Bertram Cups and next the Charlie Miller Cups almost eqaul to the first, but with a notable difference, which also goes for the Phoenix cups and these actually have the largest difference very visibly sticking out.. It's the *lip* at the opening of the cups that is -as I like it- very smal at the original Bertram Cups, but increases at the Charlie Miller version and that lip is largest at the Phoenix cups.. Is there any source -apart from Tom Franks Phoenix cups- where one can buy a set close to the Bertram cups? My guess is there is none Thing is, I do have a set of original Paul Fox cups, they are great, but as mentioned earlier they look a bit too much like the top of a thermos-bottle and not like a more or less normal *cup*.. Of course, diff. performers have diff. taste and there is nothing wrong with the PF-cups, but IMHO the Bertram cups look more *normal* to me.. I recall, Mr. Glenn Bishop did use similar cups in his C&Bs, but I suppose these neither where original Bertram cups, not many are around I suppose.. The lip on the otherwise nice Tom Frank Phoenix-cups is IHMO outstandingly large..too large.. JMHO..
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
As far as the internal size of the three styles of cup is concerned, they are about the same. I checked by dropping a tennis ball into each cup.
The lip beads on the Miller cups and the Phoenix cups are larger. They are actually pretty close to the same size, depending on when the Miller cups were made. The chrome plated ones I have are with a more open bead. This is necessary to keep the acids used in the plating process from being trapped inside the bead where they can corrode the cups from the inside. There are still some Bertram cups around. You just need to put out as many feelers as possible with the magic community to find a set. There are other significant differences. The Bertram cups weigh around 4 1/2 ounces. The Miller cups are about 6 1/2 ounces, the Phoenix cups a little over 6 ounces. Bertram finished away some of the machining marks that are still present on the other cups.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Werner G. Seitz Inner circle 3131 Posts |
Thanks a lot Bill !!
Learn a few things well.....this life is not long enough to do everything.....
( Words of wisdom from Albert Goshman ...it paid off for him - it might as well for YOU!!!- My own magic is styled after that motto... ) |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Think nothing of it! Glad to help.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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