Hi all, I don't often pop in here, but I was curious about somethings:

How many of you feel that linguistics: NLP, Wonder Words, etc.. plays a very significant role in your performance and style ?
or, another way of putting it, perhaps,
How many of you would say that you prefer to work along the lines of Luke Jermay, or Kenton, possibly Derren Brown (honestly I'm not that familiar with him yet, so forgive me if I've misplaced him here among the other two), or more along more traditional, classic, or mainstream lines - Cassidy, Banachek, Osterlind, Annenman, Waters, Webster, Busch, etc.. ?
Or perhaps I've drawn an imaginary line where no line should be clearly drawn ?

How would you define Kreskin ? I'm always surprised that I see him mentioned so little, yet I remember he had a TV series (in the States, anyway) when I was a kid, which would tend to make one think he should be more popular.
Thanks !

For me, none of that plays into what I do. I have listened to Wonder Words, and I find Kenton's work fascinating, BUT I also feel like it is something to be learned, kind of like taking a course, because it can get pretty deep (Wonder Words is 12 CDs). It became overwhelming for me, so now it's back on the shelf until I decide to pick it up again. I think at this point in my life, it's not worth the input for what I may or may not get out of it. I am not knocking his material, it's just that I'm the type of person who wants to learn the entire course, rather than just learn chapter 1 well.
I would like to become more adept at utlizing linguistic deception, and I think that if one learns it, and understands how it can impact your performance, then you're better off for it.
How would I define Kreskin? Kind of dorky, but he was a hit, wasn't he?! I've only seen a few of his shows. He tended to talk a lot at the outset, but his effects were great!

Kaylan



PS...Love your photo Mystician - very cool!

Max Maven, when he was the guest of honor a few months back, summed up my feelings on Kenton Knepper:

"There are some good ideas here and there, but most of it does not do a lot for me."

The NLP crowd tends to love him, though. But then, they tend to love anything that takes ten pages to explain what could be conveyed in a single paragraph.

If this is a poll, though, definitely put me in the 'traditional, classic, or mainstream' camp. One Richard Osterlind is worth a dozen Kenton Kneppers.

--Mike

If NLP is so effective, how come none of its practitioners have been able to convince me of its effectiveness?

Well, I have come to believe that the performance of a routine is much more important than the method involved.

Hence, the choice of words is always significant for an effect to have great impact. And I do believe that Richard Osterlind thinks at least as much about his wording as the performers who rely on suggestions alone.

Can an effect entirely rely on suggestions as a method? Probably not for all performers and certainly not for all participants. But for an expert who is able to select ideal "subjects" it can work wonders. Probably the issue for many people is also that they believe it can be learned in a few weeks in front of a mirror like any regular sleight. This is of course nonsense. Richard Osterlind has years of practical experience and I doubt that it takes less to become fluent with suggestion techniques. This is just not the "ready to perform in 10 minutes" gimmick that you buy in a magic shop.

I am so far not experienced enough to get the stuff based on suggestions to work reliably, but so far I am working on it and try to "sneak" in something now and then. With more experience I hope that I may one day reach a point where the judicious choice of words substantially improves an effect - or even works it alone. But so far I am not there yet ...

Thanks guys.
Scott - I think you hit the nail on the head - they should be able to do such a good job selling this as critical to a mentalist's performance, that everyone would buy all this stuff up. Which begs one to wonder, would an advertising professional do well as a mentalist ? Not necessarily, but he'd sure have some good insights !!

Thanks Kaylan - the power of D'Lites, believe it or not. Very little "Photoshop"'ing was done, mostly just enhancing my fangs/cheekbones.
I actually took the shot myself: I put my digital camera on a tripod, set it to self timer, and knelt in front of a mirror in a dark room.

Some interesting thoughts here, and I definitely feel where rumburak's coming from.

Only thing I've got to add are my feelings on how language makes a performance personal. While your method and means of illusion may remain the same, time and time again, it's the patter with which you push your purpose that keeps the performance fresh each and every time you find yourself in front of a willing audience.
Now, I don't necessarily believe that anyone can have complete control of their image(the idea of how you and your message exist in the minds of others), but if you can determine where your audience/spectators are coming from so far as perspective is concerned, it then becomes possible to adjust your personality, style and language, allowing you to tailor up a gem suited to shine only in their eyes. I think people can't help but to recognize and appreciate that personal touch.

All those names Mystician mentioned in his first post, brilliant minds. Why choose one school of thought when you can pick and choose pieces from each and every one, coming up with your own b*stard child style fathered by them all.

ramble ramble on and on. I'll stop now.
are there any Kreskin deeveedee's floating around out there?..I've never seen the man perform, but have read his name often enough to foster a healthy curiosity about his act.

I personally think Wonder Words is essential for any Mentalist - there's some gold in there. Max is right in what he says - some stuff is good some less but then let's be honest. Is there a Mentalist author who's stuff is ALL good? Max's certainly isn't! I get a headache reading the anagrams and mathematical set-up for a lot of his stuff.

I have used many of the techniques in WW to great effect. The only way to find out if it suits you is to try it and experiment with it.

Admittedly some of Kenton's more recent work is less than stellar but Wonder Words is classic and a MUST for the modern mentalist.

From here, the usefulness of NLP and the like is in the formulation of my presentations - to make them more powerful, not so much to be used to create specific effects. I use the language to help create the mood, direct attention, help the audience suspend disbelief if necessary and direct their thought processes away from what I am actually doing!

To me, that is where the real gold lies in the use of linguistic manipulation!

Unless you are talking about my hypnosis shows, of course, but that's another issue, altogether!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Anchoring, Triggering or lord... it does work, sometimes it helps presenting the effect, and can really boost the reaction of the audience

Something to consider - a few years ago Greg Wilson was lecturing in town, in front of 3 dozen magicians. My friend and I were sitting front row left, and we laughed at every joke. After fifteen minutes he stopped, looked at us and asked "Are you two magicians? You're laughing at all the right spots!" I replied that we had come to see him work, and we were the only two prepared to react properly...

When I watch a performance I will react the way that a "regular" lay person is supposed to. So the performer will think that the use of linguistics has worked on me. Whether it has or not is not the point (in my case, anyway), since I believe that the correct use of patter will include all sorts of subtleties, regardless of their specific names or the huge crowds of practitioners changing their lives to incorporate them...

Lee

Having all of the wonder word series, I think there are some solid ideas. I have incorporated a few. However, it is not as deep and mystifying as we are led to believe. Is it good? yes. Is it as good as the hype? no.

One that I have incorporated is the use of double requests. It does seem to have a stronger psychological influence than a single request. I have come to believe this after many, many, many experiments.

However, if we were to believe all the hype of wonder words, you would think that we have found the answer to the Jedi mind tricks. In a few short years of practice we would be able to slowly build a clone army that hangs on our every delicatly balance word. Soon we would rule the world with our ultra clever linguistic powers. Ha..ha..ha...

Wait did I just give away my evil plan . . Please delete this.

Steven

I think the dark side has taken him.