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davidmagic Veteran user Lubbock, TX, USA 340 Posts |
John Bannon, in Impossibilia, states he uses the Jefferson cups, often sold by engraving places in the U.S. for awards or personalized gifts. They are usually pewter, but a few are silver and there are some less expensive silver plated. Does anyone else use these for cups and balls? If so, what are your likes regarding these cups? Thanks.
David |
Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts |
I like that it shows that you don't need official "Magician's Cups" to perform Cups & Balls.
Here's a link for those who don't know what Jefferson cups look like. You won't be able to do much of the standard "moves" with these, but John Bannon put some thought into it, I'm sure you can too. Bill Palmer has a few sets on his site that are standard drinking cups. I've seen some nice 4" galvanized tin flower pots that would work well for a "period" demonstration, but my wife won't let me buy them because they came with flowers planted in them and she didn't want the flowers to be thrown away just so I could have the pots.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Dr. Hoodwink New user Eastern NC 42 Posts |
I've played around with some old Jefferson cups that my father had. They were usually purchased on family trips to places like Tryon Palace, NC or Monticello. I like the look of pewter and the heft of the things. In addition, they'd look great playing at any historic site or fair with a historical theme.
Anyway, I liked the way they handled...my dad's cups were real similiar in size and diameter to the cheap brass cups and balls set that I typically practice with. They don't stack anywhere as neatly or securely as a set of C&B cups, but since I don't do a lot of stacking, this is kind of a moot point with my act. I'd also probably not try many of my shaker cup juggling moves with them either unless I got 'em cheap. Since I don't actually own a set, I haven't had the chance to try click moves...I gotta wonder about the pewter alloy bending if I get a bit too forceful in the click. My early notes on Jefferson cups show that I was thinking about billing them as cups once used by an alchemist in colonial North Carolina. They've got a nice old-world look that could be "improved" by a little judicious staining (at least within the context of my own 19th c. themed character act). Fame and fortune to you, sir. Hoodwink |
TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
I see no rason to use them.
They lack too many features. Unless your routine makes specific mention to them and their shape, etc., to me, they look like they'd be horrible to use. I guess they could be ok if Hoodwink says so but to me they look difficult for many of the usual cups and balls faire. Even if I was going to do a Jeffersonian theme, I'd probably get silver cups and lie and claim they were jefferson cups. Lie, lie, lie!!!
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
That link to a Jefferson Cup ??? doesn't looke like what I saw as Jefferson's at Monticello... I thought they were engraved and a different shape??? -- I stand corrected, just went via Google and found several sites and the cups are the same as shown in David's link. My BAD...
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Here's a thought about cups and balls in general. I spent a good bit of time with Bob Read while I was in London the past week. He gave me a peek at part of his MS about cups and balls in paintings and engraving. This is nothing short of fantastic. Bob is of the opinion, which I share, that the cups used in the cups and balls are probably the earliest "purpose built" magic props.* If you look at the drawings in H.P.Jr. you will see that the recessed bottom to keep the balls from rolling off the inverted cup is already recommended in 1634. This is borne out in most of the early engravings and woodcuts. The Jefferson cups lack this. But the recess does not prevent the cups from being used as an actual cup.
The shoulder bead seems to be a product of the early 18th century. It appears in an engraving from 1710. The rolled lip of the cup goes back at least to the early 1600's. The rolled lip was also used on ordinary drinking cups. I don't see any reason to either justify a set of magic cups, or to shy away from using them. While I would be uncomfortable drinking out of a set of copper cups, mainly because of the putrid taste, I do know for a fact that many sets of silver RNT Monti cups were used as teacups. The owners never seemed to find that the rolled lip interfered with anyone's drinking from them. *Some claims that the lota predates this have been made.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
MagiUlysses Special user Kansas City 504 Posts |
Greetings and Salutations Bill,
It has been many moons since I first heard of Mr. Read beginning to write a book on the history of the cups and balls. What an opportunity to get a preview! Any thoughts on when it may be available? Thanks, Joe in KC "Live a great adventure, make magic happen, have an interesting life!" |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Read's collection is MONUMENTAL to say the least. Glad you had some time with him. And, of course, his famous routine used a coffee mug, a cups and balls cup (classic shape) and a paper cup.
Cervon does a killer routine with ordinary coffee cups. I have found teacups in a chinese restaurant will work well too -- you just need to modify the routine and work in JAZZ Mode. BTW... Etienne Laurenceaux (SP?), a wealthy French magician is writing an encylopedic book on the cups. I know, as I got a message from him regarding a move he thought he invented, then found the same move in one of my lecture notes
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Well, don't look for Bob's book any time soon. It's still in the manuscript stage. It is a phenomenal task, though.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Ron Giesecke Special user Redding, Ca. 947 Posts |
I have no hopes of anything monumental on the cups and balls, ever.
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