I have all 3 Tony Clark Videos and on Behind the Seams he metions he uses a vest with the pockets on them rather then having them in the jacket. Since I am starting to prepare my costume I was wondering if you would recommend using the vest or putting the pockets in the jacket.

Thanks,
David

Hi David,
I think both methods have positive points but the one reason I prefer the pockets in the jacket is that the line from the harness could get pulled out if the pocket is on the vest. If its on the jacket, the line can't get loose from the holder and you don't have the "frantic search" for the missing loop. Just a thought.
Tony

In my experience, both work well and it's just a matter of preference, although I personally would not use a vest. The jacket allows you to position the pockets so they are comfortable for you and fit your act. The pockets in the vest are in a fixed location.

Since you've seen Tony Clark's videos, you know that the pockets in the jacket are satin lined to provide that slick movement. The vests I've had did not have that lining and I had to modify the pockets (there are several methods to do this). The satin lining isn't mandatory but it allows you to make a much faster and smoother production.

In regards to Tony's comment about the lost loops, that also depends on how you have them attached. In my case, I use wire loops and a holder that make it impossible for the loop to come free regardless of whether I use a vest or a jacket.

I haven't seen vests advertised in a long time but then since I don't use them, I haven't had the need to look for one. If you decide to use one though, do some research first and try to see them first hand. They are not all made the same. Of course, if you are having everything custom made, you would have the advantage of choosing pocket locations, satin lining etc.

Hey Dave,
Sounds like you use Dan Sperry's loop holders. I just got mine and they ROCK! No more of the "Where did the D*** loop go". WooHoo!!!
Tony

Actually, I use a variation of Peter White's from P&A silks but they are similar to Dan's.

I use a vest and have loved it for many years. I purchased a Steve Dushek vest from Hank Lee's many years back. I than bought Gen Grants dove pockets and sewed them into the places I needed them.

Some advantages of the vest are ... when I send my jacket to the cleaners I don't have to worry about the pockets getting damaged. Second the jacket lays over the vest there for leaving less tell tale lumps in your coat. My pockets never move for my vest is snapped to my pants.

As for the loops I too use the Peter White hook up and can load in the dark if needed. Nothing to get messed up, and nothing for the audience to see, even close up. Your hook up is in the same place every single time a real no brainer. If you don't have Pete's tape or lecture notes I suggest you get them. Denny Haney may have some or have a lead on how to track Pete down.

Puck

I used to use the P&A style holder, but received a Grant loop holder when I bought a packet from him. The Grant holder is very easy to use and once you have on and see how it's made you can make your own. Gen Grant also sells pockets, as someone mentioned above. My pockets are sewn onto my jacket. I don't have the Tony Clark video you speak of, but the way my pockets are sewn is so that the top of the pocket is sewn to the jacket and the top half of the "lip" is sewn also. This allows the pocket to hang down. If you sew the whole pocket, you'll end up with an obvious bulge, which is not what you want. Also, if you are doing any productions with an invisible dove harness (meaning the dove is not going to be in a dove bag holder) then you can use one of those plastic page covers to line your pocket. This will keep the doves claws or any other part of the bird from getting hung when you do your barehand productions.

Cris

Another idea to keep your doves from getting "hung up" by their claws if you use a dove harness is to get the "iron-on" patches (variety of colors) from a fabric store. Iron one of these to the botton of your dove harness. The material is heavy enough your dove can't get a "grip" and thus harm them when produced. Just a thought.
Tony

I safety pin dove pockets onto my vest in the configuration that I need. I can wear the vest with the doves loaded and not have to have my jacket on until its time to perform, keeping the birds comfortable and not too hot. I use Dan's loop holders and have never had any problems. Being able to take my jacket on and off whenever I want to especially while I practice and not having to disturb my doves works best for me.


Take care, Bry

I got a question. Which one hides the doves more secure for a person who has been getting chubby from sitting down being on The Magic Café all day and everyday? I use the the vest, but I'm nervous when loading multiple doves. I can glimpse in and see them myself. Can the audience see them too if they burn the performer? Does one of them secure flashing the doves more in any type of way?

Mike, chubby happens to a lot of us. A pocket can be positioned slightly more toward the rear to help cover the flash. With a vest, it's a little more difficult.

One solution, if it works for you is to attach a "frog" to the edges of your jacket. That's a cloth fastener that holds the jacket sides closer together.

I'm a little chubbier than I used to be but I haven't run into a flash problem yet. My birds sit a little farther back in the pocket. The flash will really only occur if you move your arms drastically opening your jacket a little.

I almost never work a stage show without a vest. But most of my loads are in the jacket. As my hair gets whiter, to match my doves of course, I have moved back to individual pockets that I can place and even move around when conditions require it. (I also produce other loads from them!) It also saves me many surprises from the dry cleaners. Any suit will work without having the pockets having to be repaired first! On the road that is a problem.

I will also say that in the international market, individual pocket sales are up for the international pros. We are dangerously low on stock.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

I prefer the jacket.

We use a large number of different outfits in our shows, from tuxedos to suits to fantasy characters and so on. Most of the stage costumes have the pockets permanantly affixed or built in. The colour of these pockets match the colour of the lining.

However, for most corporate or banquet shows, I will wear a suit or blazer. In this case, the pockets are just safety pinned in and can be transferred jacket to jacket in a moment. This allows me to be very versatile in how I dress for any given show. These pockets are black in colour as is the lining of most suit jackets or blazers that I wear.

For very casual shows and beach theme shows, I have the pockets (these ones ar white) sewn onto a white T Shirt. In these shows, I just have to wear an open Hawaiian short sleeved shirt or any other open shirt over the T Shirt and I can still do a dove act. No jacket or vest required.

We make all our own pockets and holders, so matching colours where needed is not a problem. And, as I mentioned in another thread, I use scotch tape for loop holders on any of these costumes.

Bob, Am I understanding correctly that you do not sew any of your dove pockets in your jacket either?

Regan

I'm not sure how Bob secures his pockets but there are alternatives to sewing. You can pin them in place making it easy to move around. Another method is to use velcro. A few well place pieces on the jacket and pocket and you're ready to go.

Regan,

Never say "never" but for the last 15-20 years I have avoided sewn in dove pockets.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

That is a good fact to know!

Regan

Regan,

Those pockets are extremely valuable to working magicians for other productions too. (Trophies at awards banquets; product placement in trade shows, sales meetings, etc.; rope; silk fountains; and even a bottle of Coke or Colorado Kool-aid.)

That often means moving them just a couple of inches.

Another factor I like is that my pockets are machine washable when not in a coat.

There is a shopping note. If you see black powder coated safety pins, buy them! They are getting hard to find. (And a bobbie pin through one of those makes a great silk clip! And they will hold some spring bills and flowers! That is true even when the safety pin is really there to hold in the dove pocket.)

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

PS --- Producing Dollar Tree stuffed animals for those in hospitals and nursing homes is a snap from a dove pocket in the right place too!

Bob, thanks for that excellent information!

Regan