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J Hanes Veteran user PDX, OR 317 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-26 18:27, Cpontz wrote: looks great, but the above statment shouldn't hold true if no effect is appearant. and Watkins is right on the DeManche front. J Hanes |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Welol I am sending him my changes and he will tell you these arenoit the demange change
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Cpontz Special user Daupin PA 553 Posts |
J Hanes:
What I meant is you could tell the coins were changing (couldn't see him flashing or anything). It was hard to see the difference, but it was enough to know that if very opposite colored coins were used, it would be quite effective. It was natural and very deceptive. Vinny: I tried PM'm you also and couldn't get through. If you could send me the info, I would appreciate it. Craig |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Craig I emptied my mail box and also sent you my crimp change using varing techniques,,
vinny |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Dan,
I have never seen the DeManche change before....where can it be found in print? I have come up with my crimp palm change on my own and independentaly of anyone else's move... Dan I did send you the clips, I didn't mean to come on so strong. Hopefully this matter will clear itself up soon... |
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Howard Coberly Loyal user Irvine, California 239 Posts |
Very Nice, Rannie,
And once again he ends clean!!!
"Our town used to be more fortunate...not a single winter passed without the visit of some star.
There used to be famous actors and singers, while today, God only knows! Nobody visits except magicians and organ-grinders. No esthetic satisfaction." |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
To describe the DeManche Change, I think it will be beneficial to all for me to first provide the background on the actual concealment Vinny refers to as the Crimp Palm to provide context.
What concealment is: It is a thumb palm variant in which the coin or coins are held flatly along the length of the thumb gripped by bending in the tip of the thumb. Curing the “Grips Forum” at the Las Vegas Coinvention, Reed McClintock had brought up this concealment and called it the “DeManche Grip” since it is a grip used in the “DeManche Change.” David Roth said that the concealment pre-dates the DeManche change, and that the move is a very old thumb palm found in Hoffman’s MODERN MAGIC (1876). In Curtis Kam’s thread HERE Curtis also talks about this thumb palm variant stating that Professor Hoffman wrote that it was "a specialty of the elder Frickel" this concealment has been put to great use by Ross Bertram, Gary Kurtz, among others. In addition to the Hoffman reference it is further published as the “Thumb Grip” in “Magic Without Apparatus”, Fleming Edition (1945). It is also depicted in Bobo’s “Modern Coin Magic” (1952) as part of Adrian Smith’s “Heads and Tails Vanish.” See figure #3 for an illustration of the concealment. Smith’s usage was as a multiple coin steal. Gary Kurtz published it as the “Thumb Crotch Grip” in his book “Unexplainable Acts” (1990). Kurtz’ primary use was as a multiple coin steal and aquitment. I do not know the Bertram references Curtis referred to, maybe he can further add to the crediting. I have received several videos from Vinny in the past where he utilizes this grip. I believe that Vinny has explored this concealment to a very great degree coming up with many original uses for it. I personally have not seen any one use this grip to the extent Vinny does, and I applaud his explorations of the move and its applications. Now that the concealment is defined and credited for those who wish to look it up, I will define exactly what the “DeManche Change” is: Most people reference Henry Hay’s “The Amateur Magician's Handbook” (1950) but the earliest reference is from “The Modern Conjuror” by C. Lang Neil (1903). The DeManche Change is a one handed coin switch. It effectively switches a visible coin at the fingertips for a coin that is hidden in Finger Palm. (A Finger Palm to Finger Palm coin switch). The Thumb Grip referenced above is used as an intermediary position to effectuate the change. Here are the steps of the DeManche Change: 1. A coin is hidden in Finger Palm. 2. Another coin is held visibly at the fingertips. 3. The thumb pulls the visible coin into the Thumb Grip (Crimp Palm). 4. The Finger Palmed coin is pushed into view by the thumb tip as the other coin is dropped from the Thumb Grip into Finger Palm. The coins have now been switched or if they are different colors, a color change has occurred. Vinny just sent me a video clip of some other changes he does with the Crimp Palm. They are not the DeManche Change. The DeManche Change is specific to the steps above. Vinny does a Crimp Palm to Crimp Palm change; this is a completely different thing since the starting and ending concealments are with the thumb, not Finger Palm like the DeManche Change. Hope all this stuff helps. Dan |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Dan I thank you for posting this detailed disception and the credits for the DeManche change and thumb crotch palm . Dan is one of the most knowledgble magicins on coin magic .......and he has researched this throughly.
I have been doing this palm since 1952 or 1953,,,, to me this is a very natural . When I was a youngster and because my hands were small and wanted to work with large coins, the classic palm, and thumb palm did not feel right so I developed a technique that fits me hence the crimp as I call it was born. years went buy I researched this palm and found it iin Hugards book called the thumb crotch . howevr I never seen anyone use this palm except me , that's not to say no one ever did... any way thank you again Dan for all your help past and present vinny |
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Dan Watkins Inner circle PA 3028 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-02-28 00:41, vinsmagic wrote: Hey Vin, check out the clip at the beginning of this thread, there, now you have *grin* |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Lol dan
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rannie Inner circle 4375 Posts |
The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer is LOL too!
"If you can't teach an old dog new tricks, trick the old dog to learn."
-Rannie Raymundo- aka The Boss aka The Manila Enforcer www.rannieraymundo.com www.tapm.proboards80.net |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
Rannie has independtly came up with his color change . see this is what happens whe one branches out and starts working on other slights in stead of just staying with the norm....
Rannie is a very creative magician and he takes chances and shares his magic with the rest of the community a very rare breed.... any one can put a move into print but to use a move is in real life that is another story ..... long live the Crimp vinny |
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SOHA Regular user NJ 178 Posts |
Hey Dan,
Very informative; These are the type of threads that I like. The change that you described sounds very familiar to the one handed change in Bobo's Modern Coin Magic. Exept for the variance in the thumb palm. What is the advantage in using this variance of the thumb palm, as opposed to a regular thumb palm? Will |
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