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Steve Martin Inner circle 1119 Posts |
Since many of us enjoy card tricks, I was wondering what you thought about this:
Aside from passing the same deck of cards between us whenever we have been together, do you think it is likely that you have held a randomly-shuffled deck that has shared exactly the same order as a randomly-shuffled deck that I have held? Bear in mind that each one of us has shuffled decks of cards many hundreds (if not thousands) of times in our lives.
Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
Albert Einstein |
Andrei Veteran user Romania 353 Posts |
I won't give out the answer, because I've just read something based on this, in an Economics textbook. It had to do with distributing resources.
Mind-boggling answer. Andrei |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
In an idle state? or during a shuffle? e.g. during an overhand before completing the last few packets. If you riffle twice do both count?
My guts tell me yes. How many shuffled combos does a close-up worker come up with over a career?
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Steve Martin Inner circle 1119 Posts |
Josh - let's say a final shuffled deck. When you've finished shuffling.
I would agree with you that a close-up worker must generate many, many shuffled decks over the course of a career... the number is huge - probably hundreds of thousands...
Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
Albert Einstein |
Daegs Inner circle USA 4291 Posts |
Well... its 52!... I'm not going through the trouble of figuring what that is, but its large enough to never actually come up with the same order as anyone else, or if you did its probably 1 other random person in the last hundred years, definatly not two specific people, at least not likely.
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Steve Martin Inner circle 1119 Posts |
The number of possible arrangements of a 52-card deck is indeed 52 factorial (52!).
How many is that, and what is the implication of that in considering the answer to the question?
Any man who reads too much and uses his own brain too little falls into lazy habits of thinking.
Albert Einstein |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Well I don't know the math, but I'd ballpark it as a really big number if not more. So let's say one guy is getting hundreds of thousands of career shuffles, within this big amount. Would a like guy hit upon 1 of the same mixes? My guts still tell me yes. I've seen flipped coins land on their edges. Intellectually, I'm guessing Daegs is probably closer to the statistical facts.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Of course this huge number, which I'm dying to find out, probably doesn't take into account the number of people who open packs arranged in new pack order and riffle them twice.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
magicjohn2278 Special user Isle of Man UK 544 Posts |
We know that the number of different ways of mixing a deck is that big number Tomas posted a couple of weeks ago, starting with 8 and with 66 digits after it...
.. the chances of us matching are going to be one in a pretty big number! ... so the answer to your question is "Probably no (but it could happen!)". |
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
52! is a huge number, but that considers only "pure" randomness. It depends what you consider our startings points to be. Each of us has taken a newly-opened deck and given it, say, six riffle shuffles...betcha dollars to donuts that some of THOSE match.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
And solitaire players arrange the deck before each shuffle.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Andrei Veteran user Romania 353 Posts |
The question is assuming the deck was thoroughly shuffled, with 7+riffles, box cuts and a few washes in between.
Andrei |
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