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Missing_Link Elite user 442 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-02 16:16, Mark Storms wrote: Unfortunately dogma robs many people of their ability to use reason and logic. And, it seems, common courtesy too - anyone who grabbed my head would be immediately told to take their fecking hands off me straight away. |
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DaiBato Veteran user 310 Posts |
See the 'Anti-Magic Christians' post I started in 'The Good News' forum:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......forum=16 Dai Bato |
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Kipp Sherry Elite user Boise, ID 477 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-04-02 16:16, Mark Storms wrote: There are so many Christians who really don't know what the Bible teaches. Bible study is hard work and we in America don't do a good job of teaching people how to study their Bible for themselves. It is just easier to let the Pastor, or someone else who went to Bible College, tell us what the Bible says rather than search it out for ourselves. And it is by far easiest to rely on tradition and snippets we have picked up over the years and pass them off as "written in the Bible". My ministry for the last several years has been to teach people "how to" study the Bible. I use Rick Warren's "Personal Bible Study Methods" and teach in small group or Sunday school settings. When people ask me: "Don't you know what the Bible says about magic?" I reply that I do and ask them if they would like to learn how to make that discovery for themselves. In this way, my magic at church results in wonderful leads for my ministry. Till we appear again, Kipp Sherry |
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61magic Special user Sacramento California 775 Posts |
Mark, the best advise his this series is the statement "know your audience".
Magic has had a bad reputation over the years with the church, and it was not helped when David Blaine pulled the head off a bird in one of his specials, or Chriss Angel hanging on hooks. The popularity of "street magic" on tv has reinforced the magician/pick pocket mentality. Magic had that reputation for a long time, and somewhat grew out of it. You and I know magic is for entertainment, but some folks view it as a path to a sinful future. Show business people have always been frowned upon by the church community, and pulling out a pack of cards to do a trick or two isn't always wise. Don't pull away from performing at church functions. I started doing magic in front of an audience at a church sponsered halloween alternative program at the age of 13. The pastor of the church was so impressed by the magic he began to learn and do some on his own. I was always welcome to perform for the adults, or youth group any time. This is a great way to learn the performance side of magic. You have an opertunity to entertain and spread the word all at the same time. Just use good judgement before you perform.
Professor J. P. Fawkes
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cetchmoh New user 15 Posts |
Sheesh... thanks god (pun intended) people around here don't take religion that serious. Seems like there are a lot of differences between churches in the US and in Germany
Hey Mark: Why don't you invite that woman to you next seance? I hope nobody feels offended by this post... |
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templetrickster Regular user Pennsylvania, USA 105 Posts |
My interest started in my old church- me and this other kid were a hit! Sleight of hand cannot be considered sorcery in any condition. That's the crap that makes christians look crazy in the first place. Magic is great in church! Blaine is not the devil-these comments only show magicians that they are really good. Good enough to make people think they are supernatural. I have seen Kole, and his message and show generated a fun and positive atmosphere Similarly, Brock Gill came to my youth group- I wouldn't have taken the time to go if the message was all talk and no illusion. So I say, after the sermon, break out the crazy man's handcuffs or a deck of cards!
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tomcat New user 44 Posts |
You have to admit it doesn't help when Angel or Blane refer to Voodoo or the ocult or whatever to enchance thier mentalism trick. It unfortunitly gives people the connection that Magic=Voodoo=The Devil. I grew up in New Orleans and I saw crap that was nooooo magic trick. When people want to see blood sacrifices and the like then they can say that might be voodoo. But just like all great Magicians, you plant a seed in the mind and let the mind create what the eye could never see. When people watch at home with preconcieved notions and no debriefing then you are going to have people that carry cultural bias.
BTW - we are talking about the same crowd that "banned" the harry potter series b/c the word witch was in the book and "taught" kids how to do sorcary. Everyday Christians are the most prejudice people I know and its not their fault. Thank the preacher who tells them the Devil is out to get them EVERYWHERE instead of God is always around you and He created this world therefore all things are inheritantly good. /steps off soap box and takes a bow... "thank you for listening, I'll be here all week" |
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Tony Webs Regular user 134 Posts |
Isn't it wonderful that the art can lead one to a deeper understanding of the hidden (occult ) things in life and therefore increase ones knowledge of who we are and what we are. How many other mis perceptions in life are there for one to discover and if skilled enough to exploit to full effect. Magic is such a good grounding for all of this, the question is how much can you take before your sociological belief patterns reshape or rather if your not up to it, fall apart....oh no back to the start...which came first..the chicken or the egg , religion or magic which one is the egg ?
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
I have no idea what you just said
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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Ken Sibley New user 71 Posts |
Jesus used Object Lessons (Miracles) to get people attention and also to get the message across. The religious of the time (Pharisees) accused him of being of the "Devil". From the Old Testament to the New Testament the Message didn't change. Jesus just changed the "Method". In fact, there was a time when some said "We never saw it in this fashion (way)." Most people who are against "Gospel-Illusions", after they see what it about usually change their minds. It really depends on the presentation and at the appropriate time (Invitation to do so).
Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I understand!
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Bendy Special user Columbus, Ohio 518 Posts |
I regularly perform magic in my church. Sometimes a full-blown show for a scheduled function. Sometimes some sleight of hand stuff to occupy small groups of children before and/or after services. Sometimes during evangelistic outings to 'break the ice' when witnessing to strangers. Sometimes from the pulpit to illustrate points or to use as examples that go with the topic I'm speaking on. Sometimes during Sunday School and mentoring classes, (sometimes to illustrate a point and sometimes just for fun). So far, there have been no complaints from the 600 or so members and no complaints from visitors.
In fact, I used to have hair down to my waist. I got more hassle from the hair than I ever have for performing magic! I was asked to perform for a group of kids at a local church who didn't really want to hire me. A good friend of mine suggested they call me and they did so on his recommendation. They were a bit weary about it until after the performance. Early in the show I explained what magic is and isn't, (in relation to the 'magic' that I perform). I involved the kids and I had a strong Gospel presentation with very visual effects to drive the point home. Not only were they impressed, they went above and beyond what was agreed in paying me because after seeing the show and meeting me, they wanted to support my ministry. ...So magic and ministry are definitely a strong mix. Performing magic in a church setting, (with or without any kind of point or message), is no different than entertaining in any number of other ways. I've found by experience that most people who will call you an agent of the devil or adhere some other equally colorful label to you will go home and watch something on their television far less Biblically acceptable than any illusion I could perform. They ignore the beam in their own eye so that they can enforce their twisted interpretation on others. Those types will always be out there, no matter what you do. Long hair, pierced ears, (or other body parts), certain types of music, (or even just specific instruments), magic, tattoos, having been divorced...any number of things will set them off. They'll quote a Scripture passage or two out of context to suit their personal preferences and no amount of explanation, logic or proofs within Scripture that you can present them will change their minds. You just have to shake the dust off your feet with those people and do your best to avoid confrontations, (and maybe even contact), with them. Be encouraged - church and magic can co-exist together just fine. What we do is not the 'magic' that is referred to in the Bible. |
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Tony Webs Regular user 134 Posts |
So you do tricks and not magic then.
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