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Doug Peters Special user I have a life, so I only have 591 Posts |
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On 2004-09-22 04:43, Thomas Wayne wrote: Good thinking here. But let's step back from gospel magic briefly... As every successful comedy magician (and film director) knows, the visceral "it's a trick" instinct can be short-circuited by entertainment. That is, if the audience are enjoying themselves, they are willing to "suspend disbelief". This truth can be adjusted for gospel magic. If: a) the magician is clear in the message b) the magic is incidental to the message c) the magic is of excellent quality (i.e., bungling is not a distraction) the audience will be willing (some grudgingly, perhaps) to suspend their "it's a trick" instinct and acknowledge that the magic is a good illustration of the message. -------------------------- Here's an (slightly embellished) example out of Greater Gospel Magic... You remind everyone that Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure. (Matt 13:44) You now show a treasure chest with a padlock on it. "To whom does the treasure belong?" you ask. You show everyone that you have seven keys, and claim that only one fits the padlock. One by one, you ask seven children to come forward. Each child chooses a key from a paper bag and is given a hat to wear to represent a different status of person: - baseball cap [professional athlete] - mitre box (grad cap) [genius] - police cap [rule follower] - crown [king or queen] - top hat [banker/rich person] - halo [good person] Finally... - beanie [just a kid] Everyone agrees that whoever chooses the key to open the lock will be the kind of person who owns the treasure. One by one, the children discover that their keys do NOT open the lock, until "just a kid" opens it. There must be a mistake! All the keys are thrown into the paper bag, and "just a kid" chooses one randomly. It opens the lock (again). You remind everyone that Jesus said that the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to such as the children (e.g., Luke 18:16). Not the famous, or the powerful, or the rich, or the good, but the children... Does it mix magic and message? yes. Is the message enhanced by the magic? In my opinion, yes! Of course, there are always those few (usually adolescent boys) who obsess about the magic, and come to me after offering their explanations. But let's face it, those same boys would be playing with matches at the back if someone were to come presenting the gospel in a traditional way. As it is, I can interact with them and make them feel special and important -- as Jesus would prefer, I believe. regards, Doug
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
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llsouder Regular user 114 Posts |
I did an in depth bible study with 9-11 year old kids. We always get a to a point where they look bored or like they don't understand so I will use an object lesson. If it's magic, nature, or something really cool it will help them remember what was taught. I make sure they all know I fooled them with sleight of hand or a trick <blank> from a store.
Anybody who thinks it is more than that... well I welcome that conversation because my life is proof that when you accept Christ's atonement for your sin the change is real, way more real than a rope trick or some sleight of hand. |
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
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On 2004-09-22 15:21, llsouder wrote: Good answer! Separating the magic from the message is the way I think it should be done - unless (and this is a BIG unless) the performer is a VERY successful communicator. Of course, everyone who is into performing a gospel magic presentation is probably sure that they are great communicators and that no one is getting a “mixed" message from THEIR work. My experience, however, has shown me otherwise. "We fool none so much as we fool ourselves." Regards, Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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Mario Morris Inner circle Mario Morris 2044 Posts |
I think the only time you should separate the magic from the message is if you are a bad performer and there is a lot of bad performers out there. To many times I have seen performers deliver bad presentations with or with out magic. That is what will make the message weak a bad performer or preacher not a trick. If this is the case he be better of not doing magic at all, or preaching at that matter.
I have a 50 min show that involves a Head Guillotine as my grand finish, I draw a par-ells. I talk about the most ruthless form of execution ever formed by man "The Cross" I use the Law of God to high light our sinful condition, Ect. This is not weak in any way to say it is shallow in my opinion. Another is a straight Jacket escape, hear I talk about SIN your looking at me in this but I am looking at you in your straight Jacket, Ect. There are many others that work well, take of the blinkers and come out of your cast be creative and with your skills present the Gospel by all means possible. Mario |
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Clifford the Red Inner circle LA, California 1941 Posts |
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On 2004-09-22 09:05, BroDavid wrote: BroDavid, I really liked the way you put that. Let me preface this by saying, I am not a gospel magician. But I found this discussion interesting. I think it completely relates to the greater issues of effectively integrating magic within a performance - it is basically what is behind Bizarre Magic. Quite often I design effects with moral messages - kind of like Twilight Zone moments that make you think. It really has to be about the presentation, not the trick. Seems like a few here focus on the trick. The only purpose of the trick is to bypass the logical mind and open the viewer to more possibilities within the presentation. You could get all moral about how magic is a deception and how can you teach gospel principles using a deception. Well, it's done all the time - it's called entertainment - movies, art, music, books (the Left Behind Series, etc.). People have been known to have uplifting experiences from entertainment. Better a thoughtful entertainment than a mindless one.
"The universe is full of magical things, waiting for our wits to grow sharper." Eden Philpotts
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Thomas Wayne Inner circle Alaska 1977 Posts |
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On 2004-09-22 09:06, Doug Peters wrote: ECELLENT approach, Doug! In another thread I gave an illustration from my own youth involving a math teacher and the impact he had on my life, and on the lives of my peers. This was a powerful message for my life and showed me that the actions do indeed speak much louder (and lead much better) than mere words - and often can have a much deeper effect. Regards, Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
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ufo Inner circle Phoenix, Arizona 1185 Posts |
Hey, Great discussion here folks! Praise the Lord and pass the invisible thread!
-Ed
"What's your drug?" she asked. "Hope" he said, "The most addicting one of all."
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Doug Peters Special user I have a life, so I only have 591 Posts |
I agree with others that the emulation of biblical miracles is often counter-productive, but my experience suggests that an object lesson (not necessarily a magical one) really grabs folks' (especially children's) attention.
In Jesus parables, he often "surprised" his audience. The return of the prodigal son would have been considered scandalous in his day, for example. It is sometimes difficult to "wake up" modern audiences, and magic tricks have a way of doing that. I had the opportunity to do the "seven keys" presentation posted above again last night at an Awana (ages 8-11) opener. I'd be interested if you feel that the trick diminishes the message in any way. thanks, Doug
"if you have any answers, it's time to ask harder questions!"
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Leland Stone Inner circle 1204 Posts |
Hiya, Magi:
Just a small point of clarification: Jesus did not use parables to clearly communicate Truth. Those who heard Him speaking parables (even the disciples) were confused rather than enligtened by them. Only later, in private, was the meaning of these parables made clear. [Matthew 13:1 et seq] Leland |
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