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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
When doing the Cups and Balls, most magicians today use four final loads: First they reveal the load under the middle cup and then the two side cups followed by the middle cup again. Even Vernon eventually used this sequence.
I think this is a mistake. By first revealing one load under the middle cup, the other three become anti-climatic. I think the three loads should be revealed virtually at once: bing, bang, boom, suddenly there are three large objects on the table that weren't there before. It's the appearance of three incongruous objects almost simultaneously that really makes the effect. The only way four works is if there is a long pause between the first load and the next three, simiilar to the thinking in Don Alan's chop cup routine with the two final loads. But it's usually not done that way. It's a different situation with six final loads. In this case, each of the first three can be revealed making a big deal out of each one, each one being preferably a different type load (apple, lime, and potato, say). A pause. And then bing, bang, boom--the final three (lemons, say). |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Watch Gazzo.
Let me elaborate on this a little. It depends on how YOU sell the ending. You could stop at one load. You could stop at three. You could stop at four. How they react to each of the loads depends on several factors. If all the loads are totally identical and you just produce one, pause, produce a second, pause, produce a third, pause, produce a fourth, you will have a flat ending. If you produce the loads, speeding up the pace with each production and raising the pitch of your voice as each one is produced, until you get to the end, then you will "punch" the ending. It's like any other trick. The audience reaction is up to the way you sell the ending. I do three consecutive loads from a chop cup. The first one is a reveal, the second one comes quickly and the third is a drop from the cup about 18 inches off the table. Each load provides the misdirection for the one to come. Here's another example of how to "sell" something. It's common knowledge that when you do a bill in lemon trick, you need only read off the last three digits of the serial number for identification, right? After all, it takes time to read off all those letters and numbers. And that slows the pace of the show, right? WRONG!!!! When I do the bill in lemon, I have the spectator read the serial number off the bill right after they cut the lemon open. I repeat each letter and number, and when I do, I force the pace and pitch of the readoff, so when the last letter is read off, I have raised the excitement level of the audience until they are almost ready to burst. Then I proclaim "IT'S THE VERY SAME DOLLAR BILL!" Then the audience is really forced to applaud. If I didn't sell it, it wouldn't work.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
ROBERT BLAKE Inner circle 1472 Posts |
Understanding what the climax is and when it comes and how to perform is the big trick. I go along with mr. palmer.
the climax of the trick starts when the audience sees the first production and it ends on the last production. so you have to keep it going even if people wants to applaud. you want them to get an urge to applaud and bust into it at the end not in between. little chop cup example: the magician picks up the cup and reveals the load..... applaus "well if you like that you will deffenitely like this one .... second load. usualy the second load is not a big surprise because there was talking in between that slows down the pacing and give the audience time to get an breath and wait for what will be comming. how can this be better: the magician very slowlylifts the cup to reveal the load (looking intensly to what will be under the cup - the audience feels this tension and a big oohhh will be heard ) the cup is put down and lifted before the audience stops saying oooohhhh. what has happen is this - first there is a tension then a releave with a second bang. now a 3 ball cups and balls finale: finale load 1) very slowly lift cup - tension finale load 2) quickly number 2 finale load 3) quickly number 3 there is a rithm in this one: beat beat beat load releave load load the end. important is to not stop - keep going and don't look the audience in thier eyes. that's the cue for applause 3 ball load and big load from hat climax: 1)slowly lift cup (tension) 2)quickly lift cup 2 (bang) 3)quicklylift cup 3 (bang) 4)slowly lift hat or drop load (tension again - not as long as the first cup but enough to give attention to the new object The hat) |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
This is that all-important element of pacing that often makes the difference between an adequate response and an excellent response.
If you are doing things right, the audience wants to respond. How much they respond is up to you. When they respond is up to you.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
I always felt that 4 from 3 cups is so much stronger than 3. Personally, I like to slow the pace down, the last one is revealed rather quickly. (Yes, it is the center.) Then on my right, slower, and even slower still on the one on my left. As I reveal them, I stack the cups in the middle, where the 4th load will be produced. There is tremendous applause after the 3rd load. After it dies down just a litle bit, I have a closing line which is said as I do a wand spin and tap the top of the cups again, tipping them back and reveal the 4th load.
I know we've discussed fruit or balls several times, but here's my preference. Fruit is always a big surprise. Actually I usually use a lemon, kiwi, potato, and the final load is a large ball that matches the balls I used. If I can't get produce, I use 3 matching balls and the final one is an odd color. I save the odd color at the end, bor this reason. The first reveal is such huge misdirection, I'm coverd if the red ball flashes a bit. This seems to bring the whole routine full circle. I believe Vernon usually used 3 white and one bright red. Correct Bill? |
MagiUlysses Special user Kansas City 504 Posts |
Greetings and Salutations,
I'm of the four-load finale school of thought. I use mini-baseballs, and after revealing them "all" under one cup, I'm set to do the first reveal -- of a full-sized baseball, under the center cup. I do my final hat story/line, with the revealed load on the table, and then remember that I was going to explain how the cups and balls works, and reveal a full-sized baseball under each cup, saying, in effect, that I use four balls. It gets a good reaction from the audience, and it's a nod to any magi who might be in attendance. Just my $.02 (USD) worth. YMMV Joe in KC |
Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
One of the great routines is Johnny Paul's. He stacks the cups and produces ONLY ONE LEMON... but it KILLS... it is the way you sell it... the surprise, etc.
Remember... THERE ARE NO RULES.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
I like Dan Fleishman's reveal of three or four loads and it is also shown on Bill Malone DVD 4 .
It is a real surpirse. Johnny Paul's routine is just killer all the way through. You guys have all made great points ....facinating. Mobius |
Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Pete, there are lots of rules. Just ask anyone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
Since I close with C&B, I do a fairly quick reveal of all 3 loads at the end. On the applause I thank everyone and do my sign-off, then as an afterthought I reveal load 4. This seems to push the applause up a bit. It's kind of what Ray said in reverse.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
That works, too. It's what we call a kicker!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
I really liked the hat load of Gazzo's, but I don't think the people I show it to likes it as much.... The 3 final loads work well, but it almost seems like the 4th under the hat is too easy to explain, something just isn't working. So I would agree that for me the three final loads work best, I don't show them too quickly, I like to milk the implausibility a little.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Doing the hat load isn't for everyone.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-17 20:48, Bill Palmer wrote: You've got a point there. (big wink)
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
I have to admit, I've not yet seen Gazzo. Shame, shame, shame. I'll have to remedy that.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Michael -- now you know why I wear the pointed hat.
Ray -- prepare for some rather interesting moments.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
Josh, yes, I can see how that would work--a kicker, as Bill says. I may try that.
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Josh Riel Inner circle of hell 1995 Posts |
My problem is my "Charlie Brown" head. As it is XXL, I would need to produce one of my kids under it to give the same implausibility as the "Barely fits the cups" load (Hmmm, good idea). I wanted a pointed hat, but all they had in my size were the fluorescent orange street cones....
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
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