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kregg Inner circle 1950 Posts |
Or Prophet? Or God?
POOF!
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
That would be misleading as people don't understand what it is they do. Them terms need explaining. I could only think that people who use those terms do so to mislead people about what they do. Kids know what a magician is but would think a psychic surgeon was a doctor.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-27 14:14, Whit Haydn wrote: A magician can not do that. By doing that he becomes something that is not a magician. He becomes a fraud, charlatan, etc. Within the context of a performance he may do that, so long as the performance is framed with the statement, "I am performing as a magician." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-27 12:19, JackScratch wrote: Strongly agree. I don't think there's anything at all unethical about the deception. People know they're going to a magic show, and they know they're going to be deceived. It's all part of the deal (although, as noted elsewhere, there are a few people who would disagree with even this, e.g. Jerry Andrus.)
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-27 12:19, JackScratch wrote: The reason is not that I think it's clever, but accurate. It's your distaste for the word "lie" that causes you to deny that what we do clearly meets the dictionary definition of "lie." I have no vested interest in saying that we lie or do not lie; I'm merely trying to be descriptive. In contrast, your negative association with the word "lie" gives you a personal stake in the matter and causes you to contort yourself to avoid having it apply to you. Actors do not say things that are not true with the intent to deceive; their craft does not necessarily rely on deception. Magic does. As has been pointed out elsewhere, lies are not inherently bad. There are white lies, lies for a greater cause, etc. The fact that the audience knows they're being lied to and consents to it doesn't mean they're NOT being lied to. The "ethics" thread can reasonably discuss whether there's a problem with lying to to the audience (I would be in the "Of course not; don't be ridiculous" camp), but, as has been said elsewhere (most recently by Dave Van..?!)... the fact that at points we lie is so obvious that it should be a no-brainer as an accepted starting point.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
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Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Look at how "magic" as entertainment can be taken to extremes. Take a group of magicians like THEM working together to pull an amazing stunt on an unsuspecting stranger.
In taking resposiblility for so much of the spectator's understanding of reality--by creating a total fictional world through the acting, costuming, set, special effects, etc., which surounds and cuts off the spectator's normal resources--the performer assumes an ethical responsibility toward the subject that is very great. What are you allowed to do to them? Make them think they have met a ghost? That they are being attacked by a vampire? Contacted by extraterrestrials? What if the unexpected happens, and the subject flips and kills the "vampire"? Who is responsible? Even when the only goal is entertainment, deliberately altering the worldview of another is an aggressive act that people will instinctively resist unless it is framed in a safe and comfortable way, and with the trust that comes from the conviction that the performer will not harm you, or keep your watch. All lies are aggressions against the truth, but they serve many different purposes, both good and bad. Whenever you lie to another, I think you have a great responsibility to see that the lie causes no harm. In the modern western world, the term magician is caveat enough, in my opinion. For once, I agree with Drew. But there are countries in which the word magician and the context of "magic performance" is not culturally understood in the same way. In that country, I would not be comfortable with that as the sole disclaimer. |
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JackScratch Inner circle 2151 Posts |
I agree. In fact there are several countries today where the caveat "magician" has the exact oposite effect. Calling yourself a magcian, even in the local tongue, can get you into deep hot water, in many places.
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Moyle with Parkinsons Loyal user Australia 281 Posts |
There has been many great opinions posted here now, so here is my two cents. I think that in general there are two main groups that a magician will perform two, taking audiences at a very basic level. Now I don't want everyone jumping up and down here I know there are more than two types of audience but for all intents and purposes of this post I am going to assume there are two. The two groups are kids and responsible adults. In performing for either of these audiences I don't think it is important to state you magically intentions at all as other posters here have suggested. This is because I think that both groups are well equipped to make their own decisions on what they choose to believe and I don't think this freedom of choice is a dangerous thing.
Let's think about this, when performing for children they will think that you really are magic and you have special powers. I don't think this is a bad thing to say that kids aren't allowed to beleive in magic is like saying they aren't allowed to believe in Santa, after all you would say that they both serve the same basic purpose wouldn't you? When performing for the second group, being responsible adults, most of this group will realise that whilst it may appear that the only explaination for the tricks that we do is magic adults will realise that this is not how it is done. In this light I will always say that I am really magic and have powers because my audience understands that this is all part of the act. After all if they didn't they wouldn't ask "How's ya do that?" Moyle
"Signatures cause far too much trouble!" an original quote by Moyle With Parkinsons.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Lets get back to stacking the bodies. THAT made me laugh my fanny off!
I am going to produce the play JUST SO I CAN DO IT!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
I saw a kabuki-style version of Hamlet once where, in the duel Hamlet was run through, complete with dripping gore and, as he blade was withdrawn from his chest, he did a turn-cut up his opponent's centerline and split his costume from gaggle to zatch, complete with LOTS of blood!
The audience, not expecting this, really thought they'd both killed each other and, at the end of the show, neither actor took a curtain call and there was "blood" all over the stage and the rest of the cast was looking quite shocked. It was incredible! Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-28 19:37, Dannydoyle wrote: Doing his best "Bill and Ted"... Excellent!!! :)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Slim Price Inner circle 1935 - 2006 1326 Posts |
Has everyone missed the perfect disclaimer?
"For Entertainment Only" Slim
sanscan@tds.net
"I will never bitter be, as long as I can laugh at me!" "The people who were dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music" |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-05-28 23:01, sanscan wrote: Is that on the nightly news now?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts |
No, but it should be right at the opening of EVERY political speech or press conference, regardless of which party is giving it!
:lol: Lee Darrow, C.H.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote]
On 2006-05-27 11:05, imagine wrote: What I'm trying to get across is that say you present it in a religious, astrological, supernatural type way don't you have to be careful that you don't make them believe or re-inforce what their seeing as real? [/quote] I think it might not be ethical to play on peoples personal beliefs even after you have told them you’re a magician, in fact I think that might be very unethical. Well I don’t see how you can present magic it in a religious way. What are you going to tell them: “I am a magician but the magic will only work if you believe in God…”
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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