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robertdave New user 1 Post 
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Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw0Np8GJ......usionist
Its So blur the select card when the spectator show the card on camera!...so edit! |
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts
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On Oct 6, 2020, MrFloxy wrote: I was amazed by some striking similarities between Peter Turner's version of 51 Faces North and Think Nguyen's The Surprise. Both are 'untouched' and mentalist foolers. |
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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On Oct 19, 2020, SamChak wrote: Hi Sam, of course there are similarities, but Think Nguyen's is doable and learnable. Whereas Perter Turner's one looks so impossible, and therefore fake, at least to me.
What would a real mindreader do?
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Steven Keyl Inner circle Washington, D.C. 2630 Posts
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Nguyen's effect is technically an ACAAN, which although related, is different from a traditional open prediction.
For me, I have always preferred the OP plot to the ACAAN plot because the spectator decides IN THE MOMENT when to stop dealing. They don't name a number ahead of time, so the performer presumably never knows where or when they are going to stop dealing until it actually happens.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!
B2B Magazine Test! Best impromptu progressive Ace Assembly ever! "If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain |
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts
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Thanks ipe and Keyl for the explanation. I still enjoy being 'fooled' by both OP and ACAAN plots, like the recent one, Boris Wild's entertaining "Hearing Voices" routine in Penn & Teller Fool Us.
The OP plot and Nguyen's Surprise are performed as a precognition effect; the ability of the mentalist to foresee a future event, which cannot be explained by natural laws other than pure 100% luck. I'm wondering if there are any mentalism effects, where the spectator shuffles the deck and merely thinks of a card (without physical selection), and then he or she deals the cards like 51 Faces North effect. |
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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On Oct 21, 2020, SamChak wrote: Sam, I cannot think an effect like that right now. But maybe reading and merging Thomas Baxter's books "A Card Merely Thought Of" and "Open Prediction Project" you can come up with something along those lines. 
What would a real mindreader do?
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts
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On Oct 21, 2020, SamChak wrote: You could do this with an indexing system. |
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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On Oct 22, 2020, 1KJ wrote: If the spectator deals cards into a face up pile, how can you solve the 51 Faces North problem with just an indexing system?
What would a real mindreader do?
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts
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I'm not familiar with the 51 faces north, but one way to accomplish the effect of them appearing to turn over your predicted card with an index is:
They shuffle the deck. They think of a card and name it. They then start dealing face up and deal one card face down. During this time, you pull their thought of card from the index and palm it. After placing a single card face down, all the rest of the cards are placed face up on top of the face down card. When you take the deck back, you turn it over and you introduce the palmed card face up into the mostly face down cards. You then do a pass so that your palmed card is below their card. You turn the deck face up and now your card is above their card. You spread the cards face up (right to left if you like so that none of the indexes are visible) and you will get to a face down card, that will be your card, not theirs. You just need to make sure that the duplicate of the card you introduce into the deck isn't seen. However, they aren't looking for their card, they are looking for a face down card. I do the right to left spread just to be sure. You then reveal the face down card as you like. There is no need to prove that the rest of the deck has no more face down cards, all attention is on that face down card. The cleanup is easy because you can easily cut to the one reversed card while people are still talking about the effect and do a mid deck turnover of that single card. It is completely invisible and they will never see the face down card. You then simply place the card on the face down deck and palm it away or cop it out. If you also want to have a prediction written down, then do a pocket writing of the card while they are dealing the cards and then do Jay Sankey's paperclipped at the end. KJ |
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1KJ Inner circle Warning: We will run out of new tricks in 4388 Posts
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One more note I forgot to mention. After they think of the card, I ask them to cut the deck so that their card is somewhere toward the top of the deck, say within the first ten cards. The reason is if they think of the 10 of hearts, you don't want the 10 of hearts to pop up in their dealing. A small number of cards reduces the odds of this. Another way to do it is to have them start dealing cards face up and then deal a single card face down. Then have them place the rest of the cards on top of it and ask them to try to use their intuition to guess what that single face down card might be. In this handling, they won't remember any cards they already dealt, but if they do, they won't name it. You have a bit less time to pocket write their card and pull the card from the index, but you really don't need much time and you can engage them in conversation during this brief time.
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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On Oct 22, 2020, 1KJ wrote: So, if I understand correctly, you ask the spectator to choose their card looking at the cards in their hands and then to cut the deck so that their card is toward the top of the face-up deck. Right? If so, the spectator approximately knows the position of their card too. And this breaks the effect. Quote:
On Oct 22, 2020, 1KJ wrote: One of the great thing about 51 Faces North is the spectator is looking for their card. Before dealing a card face down the spectator is looking for their card, but even more after the dealing of the face down card. If we try to think like the spectator, we named a card an more cards are dealt face up without seeing the named card more the impossibility increases. This peak is of course reached when we have the last card to be dealt: the chances are very remote, but it is still possible the magic won't take place. I think this is the peculiar magic feeling of 51 Faces North. Your approach could be more fitting if you just let the spectator choose one single card from a tabled spread (and using a m****d d**k you can get plenty of time). Then asking them to use their intuition to guess the identity of card. But, of course, this is no longer the 51 Faces North effect.
What would a real mindreader do?
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts
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On Oct 22, 2020, ipe wrote: Hi ipe, thanks on the recommendation of Thomas Baxter's books. I'll check them out. 
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On Oct 23, 2020, ipe wrote: The magical feeling that the spectator experience is the mysteriousness that almost defies human logic. Manipulation by sleight of hand is out of the question because the mentalist has never or minimally handled the deck and the face-down card (Mentalist's prediction or Spectator's thought-of-card). Quote:
On Oct 23, 2020, 1KJ wrote: The idealized performance of 51 Faces North was demonstrated by Peter Turner on the Ellusionist channel (see the 1st YouTube video on this page). Most mind-reading effects can be accomplished by one or a combination of the F.O.S. principles, an acronym for Forcing, One-ahead, and Switching. KJ's handling belongs to the 3rd one, and requires contact with the face-down card, thus violating the condition as mentioned by ipe above. Nevertheless, KJ's handling is within the bounds of possibility, and the routine may be modified so that the spectator hands over the face-down card to the performer for revelation. See Ernesto Melero's amazing switch for inspiration! https://youtu.be/zvRbdM_exJ8?t=107 Or drag to 1:47... |
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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On Oct 23, 2020, SamChak wrote: You are welcome. I hope your reading of those books can help you to design the best 51FN version for you. 
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On Oct 23, 2020, SamChak wrote: Of course this is the trait of the 51FN challenge. But this trait is common to all the "grail challenges" we can design. Like the perfect thought-of-card effect, the perfect ootw... What I meant was to talk about the specific trait of the 51FN effect. Or, at least, this is my humble opinion. 
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On Oct 23, 2020, SamChak wrote: I would just add peeking. So, F.O.S.P.?
What would a real mindreader do?
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts
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On Oct 26, 2020, ipe wrote: Peeking is indeed a common method used in many mind-reading effects. However, I think that Peeking is more or less categorized into the One-ahead principle, because the method allows the performer to gain knowledge of a key card or the spectator's selection ahead of time. The above acronym is updated as the F.O.R.C.E. principles:
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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Hi Sam,
I didn't know this acronym, thank you. It looks odd to me, though. "Force" should already include "Equivocation" (if "Equivocation" stands for equivoque) and (part of) "Change". "One-ahead" is confusing because you can gain knowledge ahead of time with a peek but with a force too. Besides, nail-writing is not related to this (it should be included in "Change"). We can consider a basic examples. A spectator is thinking a card and the mentalist has to guess it correctly. This approaches are available: 1. Forcing the card. 2. Knowing the card afterwards (mainly peeking but other strategies are possibles like fishing and muscle reading for example). 3. Changing the mentalist's commitment afterwards (switching the mentalist's face-down tabled card or nail-writing). Another basic example. The mentalist has to predict the spectator's named card. This approaches are available: 1. Forcing the card. 3. Changing the mentalist's commitment afterwards (switching the mentalist's face-down tabled card or nail-writing). 3. Multiple-Outs. Summing it up, I would say: Forcing, Knowing afterwards, Changing afterwards and Multiple-Outs.
What would a real mindreader do?
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SamChak Elite user 478 Posts
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On Oct 30, 2020, ipe wrote: Hi ipe, thank you for your explanations and the examples. I made up the F.O.R.C.E acronym to help myself to remember the principles easily. 
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Leo H Inner circle 1334 Posts
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Karl Fulves wrote a nice treatise on 51 Faces North. It's worth obtaining. Anything he writes is worth getting.
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 1, 2020, SamChak wrote: Hi Sam, surely your acronym is more elegant and easy to remember then my F.K.C.M.
What would a real mindreader do?
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ipe Special user 515 Posts
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Quote:
On Nov 1, 2020, Leo H wrote: Hi Leo, is this one? https://www.conjuringarchive.com/list/book/265 Do you suggest some specific effects from the book?
What would a real mindreader do?
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Leo H Inner circle 1334 Posts
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On Nov 1, 2020, ipe wrote:Do you suggest some specific effects from the book? No I haven't read it in a while and it's currently boxed away from a recent move. It was quite an interesting read. Will dig it out and study the contents again. |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » 51 faces north by Stewart James (17 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Oct 14, 2020 09:45 am 
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