Ummm . . . DHE meaning, anyone?

Thanks,
Jack Shalom

Greetings!
Earlier in this thread, there was a discussion (by the threads founder) on what would be the reason for doing magic etc; I find that Paul Harris is of the "smug" type. I remember watching Paul perform, and I really did get the feeling that he "knew" what he was doing was "real" magic, while we all viewed it as tricks.
It was smug, but it was lovable and irresistable.
When Paul first arrived on the magic scene, Paul was considered a "bizarre" magician, too.
Maybe not by many of the standards today, but then, yes.
I've never seen a better example. If you've ever experienced Paul in an intimate setting, and with free reins, you'll know what I mean.
It's like being a child all over again.
Cheers,
J.Warrens

DHE

Design Human Engineering: extension of NLP that comes from that amazing sentence in 'TranceFormations' about belief.

It's amazing what one monkey can do when it hears about what another monkey saw

David, that was the most brilliant, well thought out, profound, and intelligent post I have ever read on this forum. I will take these ideas and run with them.

Thanks daffydoug for the compliment! Be sure to tell us what you come up with if you do end up playing with these ideas.

Since the thread has been resurrected, I’ll take the opportunity to mention a really nice lecture I recently attended by Topas in which he discussed different attitudes that a magician can take to his magic (something with some relevance to the present thread).

If I remember correctly Topas named three stances one might take to ones magic: the magician can be a Killer, a Victim or a Witness. In short, the killer magician is in control and clearly the force behind the magic. The victim is a person who is subjected to magic, someone to whom magic happens. The witness is also (like the killer) a person who causes the magic to happen, but is more passive and cool (someone like Lance Burton).

I’m sure there are more attitudes/stances than these three, but this is a stance and something to ponder. In the lecture Topas went on to demonstrate the professor’s nightmare three times employing each attitude at a time. Which was a treat.

I am glad to see this thread resurrected. It is full of valuable material.

With regard to the Killer, Victim, Or Witness idea, that is an interesting take.
I would like to change the definition of witness a bit though. It is not unusual
for me to play the role of a skeptic, even as I play the role of magician. I am simply a witness to the events, while (to stay within this termonology) the audience is the source (killer?) and/or the victim.

I only bring this up becasue I think that it is quite possible (in fact I know so, becasue I do it) for us to step outside of the classic role of causing the magic. I like the idea that the magic is either caused by the spectator, or by some outside force, possibly one over which I have absolutly no control.

In my mind, this works well becasue it places you in the same position as your audience. Or perhaps below them, after all, they have the power not you.

Anyway, just a thought.

Dave

I just went back and re-read this thread and someone made the statement that one should tell the tale without the magic and see if it has impact without the props. if that's the case, then I do about two magic effects that truly "tell the tale" even without the props.

One is the key that turns over in the spectator's hand. I relate it to my Grandfather's experience (true) in the Merchant Marines during WWII. Seems as he was walking up the gangplank of the ship he was about to sign on to, he felt the antique key to his footlocker turn over in his pocket and decided not to take the trip. Four days out, the ship was sunk by a German U-boat, going to the bottom with all hands.

A year later, he was on leave in new York city and, turning a street corner, slammed into some guy. When they picked themselves up off the sidewalk, they looked at each other in sheer horror. My Grandfather was face-to-face with the Captain of the ship that had sunk! Seems that the Skipper had refused to sail on the same ship the same day when HIS key, the same kind as my Granddad's had mysteriously turned over in his pocket as he went to sign the Articles!

Ask me about Demon Dirt some other time - I almost got shot multiple times in the same presentation for THAT little number!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

I believe that it is VERY CRITICAL to believe that what we do is real magic. If we believe that it is real and have that sense about us, then it is so much easier for our spectators to believe with us. Children pick up on this very easily as do the elderly, but almost anyone can believe in real magic if the atmosphere is set correctly. If you let the actor in you come alive, and your story and actions are done flawlessly, then my friends, you do have real magic at your fingertips. At the climax of the effect, act just as surprised to see what has transpired just as your spectators do. I have found that if you just believe in yourself, than real magic is easily obtainable. To me the real magic is just seeing that sparkle in a child's eye, bring a smile to someone's face who is down and having a bad day, and just having the ability to bring a sense of wonder and amazement is magic in its own accord. Follow these steps and the magic will come to you.

Phil

What an excellent way of reviewing a magical vignette! Tell the tale without the props and see if you actually have an interesting story. Where is the story in "Here's a hat, here's a rabbit..." Incidentally, great story about the key turning over in your grandfather's pocket.

I wish I'd been able to get to this thread earlier... unfortunately, I've had some major down time of late...

NONETHELESS... Great thread! David, I think you should do some formal R&D on this (these) ideas and get the book written... this is the kind of stuff Docc Hilford, Rick Maue and numerous others I'm in touch with, have been talking about for at least ten years now. Granted, much of the "theory" has been kept behind closed doors, allowing us each time to practice our theories and cultivate material that "proves" the course of thought. Then again, I've shared a great deal of perspective around this issue in my regular column @ OnLine-VISIONS (Psychic Perspectives) and even at TOP HAT in the UK.

Now here's the problem with this line of focus... We'll all talk about and agree that something needs to be done but, when the sun has set and we're packing our materials back into that little black sachel we carry about from gig to gig, we haven't changed a thing. Like most hypocrits, we've given the idea lip service but failed to follow through.

I don't say this to be crass... Human nature is to take the course of least resistence when and where possible. Many of us believing that "when it works, why fix it?" e.g. when we do the corny C*R*A*P that's been used & abused for at least the past four decades that I know of, we do so because it's tride and proven. We're too afraid to put that little spin to it that will move it further into the realm of things surreal... we're afraid to become "Magicians" and will make up every excuse we can to remain "tricksters & jokers"... including the act of lying to ourselves and what we really do when we perform vs. what we THINK we're doing.

Some very solid and well thought out ideas have been presented. Catch is, we need to stop talking about them and start applying them to our work.

I don't recall if it's been released as of yet, but I know I did an article some time back that covered this issue. The point is, we all claim to be "Magicians" which, by our own definition is nothing other than "an actor playing a part". Yet, 99% of us HAVE NO FORMAL ACTING/THEATRICAL BACKGROUND let alone, associated experience. Until we gain that kind of formal foundation and learn how to use our mind, our voice, and our physical being as a means by which to create interactive illusions that invoke our public's imagination (causing them to suspend their disbelief and even invest themselves into the experience we are offer to them)... until we can cultivate within ourselves that single ability, most of what we do when it comes to the "effect" will remain just another trick vs. a "special effect" that embellishes both, the tale being told and the experience being offered.

With all the wonderful technology this world has seen come to the fore in the past thirty or fourty years, we've become blinded to the subtler modes of technology we've lost. The biggest of which, at least in my opinion, being how to invoke one's imagination and that of others gathered about the family hearth, with the tellng of tall tales and ancestral adventures. We've forgotten the power of simplicity and until we... especially those of us who claim to be students of the esoteric arts & sciences, learn to recapture such elements and revive them... well, I fear that the world may become lost and the fantasy of genuine magick will go the way of the Dodo...

Very good thread!

David, I can't tell you what it has meant to me to find and read this thread. I stopped performing years ago when I came to the realization that I was just another guy doing tricks, and that wasn't enough. I had never been exposed to the type of thinking being discussed here. When I found this forum earlier this year I hoped that I would find something that would strike a cord inside and give me the creative boost I needed to start performing again. What I needed was a REASON for the magic. A way to believe it for myself. I know I've heard some of these ideas before, but never in a way that made sense to ME. Thanks to all of you for helping me finally get a better idea of what magic should really be about. I know I've got a lot of work to do, but I'm truly excited again.

I don't know if it matters what you believe. I do know that it matters what the audience believes about the performer's intentions.

If getting into character and AS THAT CHARACTER, believing in the magic you do helps you be congruent in performance, good going!

WOW !
This is the first time I've seen this old thread, and it immediately grabbed my undivided attention. I'm really glad this got bumped up again.
David, you have here, I believe, the most thought provoking and profound post on the Café ! I'd love to hear more ideas from you.

Even though I already had a theme going, (vampire-warlock) it's caused me to rethink my angle a bit, to make it a little more believable. So much so, in fact, that I came up with a new term for magician - and then decided to see if anyone else had thought of it, and if not, I'd change my username to this term, because
A) Cyberhagen is too long, and certainly doesn't roll off the tongue very well
B) Nobody seems to have caught on that it's a play on the name Salem Sabrehagen, the talking black cat on "Sabrina".

Being that the term "magician" has, over the years, developed a widespread,public mental image of somebody who wears a tux, maybe even a top hat, works on stage, pulls rabbits out of hats, saws women in half in a hundred different ways, and is basically defined as little more than a trickster, I felt that a new term or two was in order.
Seriously, go to a Barnes and Noble bookstore. Where do they keep the magic books ? Are they under "Performing Arts" ? No, they stick them with the puzzles, crosswords, and brain teasers ! Hows that for a statement about the sad state of affairs regarding the public's perception of magic today ?
At any rate, it may prove eaiser to define a new term than trying to reclaim the old ones.

So far, we have:

• Magician
  
• Conjuror
  
• Prestidigitator (gotta love that one)
  and to a more ambigious or fantastic degree,
  
• Wizard
  
• Warlock
  
• Sorcerer
  

The term I came up with is Mystician. We are seeking to not only entertain, but to mystify. When you astonish, surprise, or baffle someone, it's an effect that lasts for seconds, possibly hours. When you mystify someone, hopefully, it's something that could conceivably keep them up at night wondering. It should be a profound effect. We should seek to make them question things they have always taken for granted, the laws of physics, life after death, other dimensions, etc.
For what it's worth, this is something D. Blaine did very well. He really spooked people and made a lasting impression. This is what it used to be all about, isn't it ? When Reginald Scott wrote "Discoverie of Witchcraft", it was named so because common laypeople really believed in this stuff.

BTW, David, I loved that analogy with 2 dimensional beings and moving an object up through the third. If I can expand on that a little, it is said that the fourth dimension is time. For an object to tangibly exist to us, it must occupy space, in 3 dimensions, (a sheet of paper does have thickness !) and it must also occupy time. If doesn't exist for some length of time, then it doesn't exist, period.
Perhaps we could use this to our advantage when explaining some of the phenomona we create.

Addressing some of the other excellent points in this thread:
Sources of our power, or, the "how":
When I'd read about our reality itself being an illusion, and the magician being able to manipulate it thusly, four words came to mind immediately:
The Matrix has you !
This is just one take on the concept, of course.
Another possiblity is an advanced technology - as Arthur C. Clarke wrote, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". Perhaps we can display a small electronic box of some sort, something that looks like technology from perhaps, the future (the magician is a time traveler from the future !), or perhaps alien technology. (the magician is an alien !!)
Perhaps the source of this future power is nanotechnology. This could even be used to explain card tricks - the cards are being altered in real time by nanobots, which are redrawing the pips.
Conversely, another approach is that the cards aren't changing at all - or for any magical effect, for that matter - the magician is creating the effect entirely in the specatator's minds - inducing a mass hypnosis, if you will. Mind Control.
Manipulation of Perception. A Perceptionist perhaps !
Some other thoughts - the source of magic is akin to "The Force", as used in the Star Wars continuum. All living things radiate and impart energy that can tapped into, like the orange on the table. (BTW, perhaps carefully skinning an orange, then thinning out the skin, and wrapping it around a balloon with a medium-slow leak will yield a shrivel effect)
Another quick idea, use a plasma ball as your energy source, touch it to recharge.
Looks convincing anyway. Lumisphere also makes plasma balls without that center rod, the plasma jumps around the inside circumference of the ball; they make multicolored ones, and they make excellent crystal ball effects. Just build up a nice wooden stand around the plastic base for a more authentic look.

The "Why"
This is harder, IMO.
The only things I could expound on were

• Teaching - ala Eugene Berger's verison of Gypsy Thread, where he talks of Vishnu, etc, we use magic to illustrate our teachings to help further mankind.
  
• Teaching/Practice - a combination of teaching and perfecting our own abilities, much like a guru or fakir might do. Sometimes teachng is the best way to learn something for yourself, it makes you go over it in your head, on paper, and forces you to clearly explain the workings of something, revealing weak spots that should be addressed if a complete understanding is to be gained.
  
• Alien - admittedly an odd idea, but similar to the "Predator" theme in which Earth is a training ground for aliens - perhaps something in the air, or earth, or even our sun (ala Superman) provides a power for a certain alien race that makes coming to Earth for training, or use as a proving ground, an ideal place.
  

That's all I got for now, and that's probably more than enough rambling from me.

-Cyberhagen
or
-Mystician
whenever my username change takes place ..

I have bin playing with the Idea of cursed/enchanted items. this way I don't have to follow up with another trick. My folks used to sell antiques, and there are lots of weard things out there. On a side note, how far do you push this idea, push it to far and you end up a 1-900 psychic or a cult leader. not that I have a problem with this but there are probably web sights for you out there. the cult Café

Remember the television series, "Friday the 13th" ? It aired from 1987 to 1990, I think. It was known as "Friday's Curse" in the UK.
That oughta be good for a few ideas now that I think about it

Thank you, MorningStar! Kind words are always appreciated! And the story about the key is true (at least, that's what he told ME). And the truth is often far stranger than fiction.

Lee Darrow, C.H.