That's right, that's exactly what it is.

And unlike the "101 Tricks With a Svengali Deck" booklets, which basically teach 101 ways to REVEAL the "chosen" card, this booklet deals with the handling of a Svengali Deck, which is much more useful to Svengali workers. SETH

I find this attitude humorous mainly because I used to do a routine with a regular deck of cards where I "proved conclusively to the audience" that it was not a normal deck of cards. Showing that all cards are the same is one of the humorous joys of doing the "Hindu Shuffle." Combine it with effects showing that the backs are first red and then blue, or the fan that makes it seem as if they have all gone blank. I think it would be fun to sell Svengali decks while demonstrating all the routines with a normal deck of cards.

I am new to this thread, and It is possible some of you folk out there may never have heard of me. However, there was a time in the late 1960's in England when I was known as one of the country's top Svengali workers. In a league with Joe Stuthard, and definitely preferable to Burling Hull who was, I believe, the inventor. However, I have to say that a gentleman I worked with years ago, who I knew very well, but have not seen for at least 30 years, was named Ronnie McCleod. I see there is someone by the name of McCleod who posts on this thread: maybe he is a distant cousin..........but that is unlikely. Does anyone know the gentleman I am talking about? I would be most interested to hear what became of him. Maybe we could bring him out of hiding, and he could post on the Café!

The Mark Lewis book is the bible for those wanting to truly understand the potential of a Svengali deck in performance.

The Don Driver discs are the bible for those wanting to truly understand pitching the Svengali deck.

(Mark pretends he's not lurking here on the Café, but he really is.)

........"Hi Mark"!

Performance and pitching are totaly different.Thanks for pointing that out Silverking.Some guys just don't get it.

Later,Don

Here is the book: The Long and the Short of It!

http://www.isawthat.com/en/store/long.html (25 dollars)

I have been using Svengali in a host of recent festivals with great lay audience reactions.

1- As a performance of a routine I have fooled card players with, but had lots of fun doing, a demo with plenty of interaction - not once has anyone asked to see the cards, as I let them handle them during the routine.

2- As a pitch, which is so different as you have to sell the deck at the end, that's when you know your routine is working.

As much as we have our differences, I must also cast my vote for Mark Lewis' routine and pitch.

I am imagining this is the only place on the Café that his name can even.

Mark Lewis' pitch is probably the best way to sell Svengali decks in the US.

Nyman's is a better pitch for the UK market, though.

Both Steinmeyer (as mentioned previously in this thread) and Bob Farmer have published VERY sneaky uses for the Sven deck in their respective columns in MAGIC magazine.

Chris Wardle has also published a booklet of effects using the Svengali principle, which has several clever mentalism effects using the trusty Sven deck.

Alex

Now, that's a very odd comment. Why would you say that Marl Lewis has the pitch for the US market, when Mark Lewis has only worked the US on a few occasions? The vast majority of Mr Lewis' work has been done in Britain. All over Britain, in fact. As well as Ireland and Canada. I'm not saying the pitch is not good for the US, but it certainly wasn't designed for use in the US market. Not at all.



It's my understanding that Andy Nyman used to work for Marvin's Magic in Hamleys. Mr. Lewis trained many of the demonstrators at Marvin's...with HIS own routine. I'd be surprised if Nyman's routine isn't heavily influenced buy Mark Lewis' routine, even though he didn't learn it directly from Mr. Lewis himself.

Here are some reviews of Mr. Lewis' masterful treatise on the Svengali Deck. Entitled: "The Long and the Short of It."

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:gkSt......amp;cd=3

I am sorry to say that I think most of you guys need a dictionary.

LEWIS is a Britain living in the US, and is the author of a well researched treatise on the Svengali deck, covering not only his famous and much mimicked routines, but also invaluable handlings and subtelties.

NYMAN is a UK magican/mentalist who started his career demonstrating Svengali decks.

LEWIS'S influence is evident in Nyman's routine.

A PITCH is a sales technique, and is aimed to sell the deck to the audience—in this case, pitching in a London toy store.

A ROUTINE (as in Lewis's book) is aimed more at teaching professional magicians.

The UK is an English speaking country.

The US is an English speaking country.

The 'long and short' of this conversation is ignorance, I'm afraid.

*** talking of dictionaries, above should read 'Briton', not 'Britain'. My dictionary is now spanking me.

What the **** are you talking about seigeman? Do you think you are enlightening someone?

By the way, LEWIS as you call him, (a proper name that would not be found in a dictionary), does not live in the United States.

I was actually on your side, Vandy.

My post wasn't meant to be enlightening... it was meant to point out that quite a lot of people aren't seeming to get their facts straight about this whole disorder.

And yes, Mark actually lives in Canada. I'm afraid my tone of voice was perhaps wrong, but it would seem that most people are missing the fact that I'm defending Mark—the Briton who's now in Canada.

Ho hum!

Seigeman!

I was just going to post a reply to my reply. I now understand that you were on my side of the issue. I apologize for my tone. I read your post first thing in the morning and it went right over my head. I really should have a cup of coffee or a Mountain Dew or a beer or something before I post. I was still in a fog.

Please accept my apology. You are absolutely correct.

I love any SvDeck trick which does not use the shuffle which gives away the deck to anyone who knows it exists. Most of the best SvDeck tricks can be done with a not shortened deck - ie all cards the same size.

off the note but sort-of on topic

I saw a very (very very) well known mag do tricks with a force deck (all the same card - but could have easilly done with a SvDeck) and becouse of who he was - we all thought it was great slight of hand. We tried to figure out what moves (and he even performed/faked some moves). Later he killed us by showing the deck.

that's the best trick with a force deck - because Magicians couldn't figure it out - played right into our nature of thinking things are more skillful than they actually are.

Nymans routine is the best one. Nyman is brilliant.

This thread is becoming a little like movie stars talking politics... it can sometimes be dangerous because the general public assumes just because they are well known in their chosen field, they know something "more" about politics... occassionally their views may be given more credibility than they deserve.

perhaps rather than saying "Nyman" is the best or "Lewis" is far better, we should also mention what we have seen, have we seen both or only one, or none? how qualified are we to compare and evaluate the two?

for mine, I have only seen "some" of Mark Lewis' work. I find it most entertaining. I have not seen Nyman's work although I have heard from some sources that Andy Nyman's work simply utilises much of what he has learnt from Mark Lewis. at least that's what I have heard. I would enjoy a serious comparison of the differences if someone can provide this.

in so far as why Lewis or Nyman would be better for the US vs the UK? I can understand perhaps the US market "may" enjoy a more high impact pitch than the UK... perhaps??? (maybe the subject for a seperate thread) however I cant imagine what further "impact" would be necessary in Mark Lewis' routine which at the same time has sufficient "clever dry humour" built in, to work in a powerful way to audiences who want a less "in your face" pitch as well.

to say definatively that one is "best" for the US while the other is better for the UK is hard to understand, mind you I have not seen both so I can hardly comment on that.

Try one of the old pitch acts for the Svengali Deck. The pitch routine I've used years ago at the magic store at at fairs in Missouri is only about 3 minutes long, but strong (much stronger than most people's use of the Sevngali Deck).

Yes, you tip that it is a fake deck (a "mechanically engineered deck"), but don't give away method, and it had the bonus of being very useful to sell hoards of them, if you draw a crowd, do the pitch, and then collect the sales, trying to do ad-on sales of the instructional booklet. I have heard stories of men making most of their living with such pitch-acts since the margin on teh cards is so high (you buy a deck for about $1.00 each and sell it for $10.00.)

I have used the same pitch act, scripted differently obviously, to talk about cognitive distortions, and "all-or-nothing thinking," at a General Semantics conference years ago. I know that some people shy away from "magic with a message" but this was a perfect fit.