Do unto others before they do unto you is my motto. I might be wrong but I believe these guys that r so full of fear are not the best. that's why they fear they r a little fish that is about to be devoured by a bigger fish. They feel somewhere out there or they know somewhere out there are bigger fish. And they dread being devoured rather than having the assurance that they r the devours. In the ocean rarely a shark goes around with fear that he is going to be devoured or a lion that he is going to be eaten in the wild or a eagle that another bird is going to take him down. They r the big dogs and others fear them not the other way around.

You may have something there Jay. I don't really fear being devoured and I'm no Great White Shark. Of course, there are situations where I would be WAYYYY over my head. And I'd be scared. LOL.

You're right though, I'm sure Steve Forte fears no man. But mere mortals like myself, should be scared. Keeps you on your toes, keeps you alert. LOL

Fear has nothing to do with it.
The edges are so small with all good players that even giving a cheater a very small edge can seriously damage your roll.

I'm surprised you don't know that, and are on about sharks, eagles, and dogs.

The most important motto ... never be greedy...be subtle....and reduce your risk of exposure. You just want to improve your odds .... while being right 100% of the time is required for magicians. Gamblers are happy with a stong edge even if they are wrong a small percentage of the time.

Of course each person's view may very....but, that is my opinion.

Of course, you CAN be 100% correct...but, that may also arouse suspecion from a gamblers point of view.

Just another thought about percentage play. In real games its actually essential to find a play that gives an edge over the long haul. Winning away especially if it occurs regularly on the cheaters deal is bound to draw heat. The hustler wants a strategy that allows intermittent wins as well some losses but biases the odds in his/her favour over time.

Regards,

Paul H

You still need skill in the game in question. You can't cheat 100% of the time without eventually getting caught. This being the case, well you have to posess some skill at the game in which you are cheating. I have known some seriously good cheaters, who spent too much time on learning to cheat, and not knowing that the way in which they were playing cost them money.

This is especially true with the guys Paul describes, the advantage players I call them. (actually a lot of people do) What do you do fold every hand your not dealing? Can't be done. So if you play so badly when your not cheating, you can lose more money than you make.

This happens a LOT at the Blackjack table. I have seen players who are great at cheating, but would not split 9s at the right time. This costs you huge.

So back to Darwin, I have never seen him play a game. His "knowlege" seems to be ok but strategy is a whole different road. I am not saying he is good, I am not saying he is bad, I am saying it needs to be considered.

Darwin to be more correct makes a living from performing in one way or another. Consulting or performing. He does NOT make a living off of his game the way that a poker player does. Slight difference. You can make a great living performing and consulting, and I bet he does for he is good, BUT making one actually playing, or hustling, well it is another matter all together. I don't say he "couldn't", only that he chooses not too.

So lets take out the "hero worship" part of the conversation.

Paul is right, percentage playing is good long haul thinking, but to do it you have to know the game still pretty well to keep the money.

(notice I made no claims about Darwin's ability to get the money either way, only that there is far more to being a hustler than simply knowing moves.)

I should say that my above posts were about being aware of shiners in all their forms at the specific table that I play at, NOT that I or my fellow players were beyond ever being taken by a pro with a shiner.

I'm just as prone to being cheated as anybody else is.

My posts may have appeared to contain a certain amount of "hubris" on my part which could lead a guy to believe that I consider myself as having moved beyond ever being cheated at the card table, something that's not true now, or will it be in the future.

In fact, I may have already been hustled at this table and not even know it.

Vandy I didn't forget, I'm on the road (typing from my phone).

Doc

Doc,

No worries. Take care of yourself.

Danny you may be right that darwin couldn't cheat 100% of the time and not get caught but I would bet a lot that he could get *** near close. I think that if your at his level that it would take an immense oversight in common sense to get caught.

Although if you but him in a game of people that had never heard of him before(which may be difficult in a high stakes game that he would play in) they would most likey be newbies and expect to get their money taken which would make it eaiser.

See I am now gonna catch a lot of flack for this. Darwin does not, at least "TO ME" anyhow, look natural when he is doing things.

I can never spot the actual moves Darwin uses, oh no they are far too clean. BUT usually you can spot the "moment" the moves happen. There is a huge difference. He tends to get all cringed up and it is obvious he is doing something. Lord knows if I didn't know what the moves were I would not know WHAT happened, as I said his moves are extraordinarily clean, but the "moment" is given away by his positioning and the way he acts.

By the same token he does "magic" and consults. His job does not require him to do things under fire so it is no big deal. Also please do not think I offer this as anything critical. Only that if he WAS to play for relativly small stakes in the 30/60 range, he would quite probably get his hands broken.

That being said please understand he is a great thinker, a great move guy and I am not being mean or anti Darwin here. ONLY pointing out that he dosn't do these things for money. Sometimes we need a reality check.

Oh and you can't cheat anywhere NEAR 100% of the time and not get caught. Well I am sure someone will tell me I am wrong, but that is usually not the goal.

Please re read the post prior to sending me hate email and posting things nasty about me. I am not being critical. I am not bashing. I am not being mean. Only honest.AND still saying he is good, heck great.

Hi Jay,

Doc is 'the real deal' and he makes his living as a professional hustler. He comes from the hard school of knocks and experience and sometimes his advise and opinions have this hard edge to them. Basically I have found him a good hearted and generous man and he is rightfully protective of the skills of his trade. I'm sure this tussle can be worked out. Hope this helps,

Regards,

Paul H

Danny

I think Darwin is smart enough to know what he could get away with at the table and what he couldn't. I mean I would not judge him on what he uses for magic. I use a lot of stuff in magic that I would not dream of using at he table. ie I am not bad false dealer but I have not used a false deal at the table since being a kid. There are safer moves that I am sure Darwin knows that he could use without getting his hands broken. I woudn't like to play cards with him anyway. I would agree that "if" he used some of the gamblimg demos stuff he might not last long at a table. As I said Darwin is smart enough to know whats what.

Let me give my opinion. scarne was a sucker and garcia who bought there knowledge from real street hustlers then told the world the same way criss angel does. I might be wrong but I don't think doc is the real deal. its like they say the same man who can hit a bulleye everytime in practice couldn't hit the side of a barn in a duel. doc like scarne and garcia can do tricks but in a real crap game I doubt they r anything. and I doubt he makes his living gambling.

Perhaps not.

Paul H

I bet your right tommy. BUT when guys make claims like he could get darn close to cheating 100% of the time, well that is just not supportable.

I bet IF Darwin was to attempt to cheat, he would pick his spots. I definatly give him enough credit for being smart enough to know that. So yep I agree.

I have only met DOC twice and can tell you he has some excellent "money" moves that will not only pass in the real world. But, will fool you even if you know what you are looking for.

DOC has my higest level of respect !

Thanks Expertmagician for the compliment and I have the same respect for your skills as well.

Your Friend

Doc