My doves are use to being in the holder for up to 20 minutes. Due to some changes to my show, I would like to leave him in the holder for 45 minutes. I this bad?
(I use General Grant's holder)

Mike

Mike, in my opinion, 45 minutes is a long time. The typical dove act is usually no more that 12 minutes or so. The heat generated under your jacket for that length of time concerns me. I would suggest that if you have anyway of adjusting your new show to reduce that time, you should do so.

If you're performing on stage with spotlights, the heat generated is increased making a dangerous situation for the birds.

I've left a dove in a holder for around that time length but this dove is not in my jacket, it hangs on a hook off the back of my table and is not subject to any spot lights or heat. As Dave said, if you're going to keep him inside your jacket 45 minutes could be dangerous for your dove. I have heard stories of birds being produced dead from heat exhaustion. I think that a dove would be ok in a holder for 45 minutes provided he is not in your jacket and is at least comfortable and can breath well in an airconditioned environment. Your question though did not specify where the dove and holder will be for that 45 minutes period.

Peter Austin

45 minutes is a long time for any animal to be enclosed in a tight space such as a holder. I definelty agree with Dave on this one. That is pushing the limits a little too much. 12 minutes is enough time. A persons body heat inside a coat along with another hot bodied animal can be a disaster. The problem you will run into is the production itself for that long period of time. When the Dove is produced, it will look "tired and exhausted" from the heat, and will most likely look a little "unkempt" (spelling?). The feathers will most likely look fairly messed up, and the doves mouth will be gapping open from getting some air, which in turn will cause concerns for others when watching. I wouldn't recommend using a body load for that long. As for non-body loads, having a dove in a holder for that amount of time can still be a little dangerous, but not as dangerous.

Just me 2 cents...*smile*

Forgot to mention, I don't use body loads. It is on a shelf in my table in an air-conditioned room.

If you think it is still too long, I can arrange load it during my act instead so it will stay in there only a few minutes. Just have to come up with some jokes to tell while I'm back there for a minute or so.

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, that's makes a big difference. You can keep your doves in the harnesses for a long time if they are just sitting like that on a shelf, especially since you are using the Generals harnesses. The body loads were what concerned me. I load my doves in the harness about 5 to 10 minutes before my act and just let them sit on a table until I'm ready to load my jacket. Then up to 12 minutes later, I make the production.

In all honesty I cant even believe a question like this was asked. You need to reexamine what your considering. I know you have heard it before but maybe you need to be directly concious of it, your birds are not props! This is cruelty to animals!

Gentlemen,

Body temperature for a human is 98.6F and 105F for a dove.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander

DJ, if you read both of Mike's posts, you'll see he explains what is question really is. It's a legitimate question. Remember, not everyone is an expert, in fact none of us are, so the only way to learn is to ask questions. What may seem obvious to you or I, may not be so to other workers.

Many years ago, I forgot to produce one of my loaded doves during a show. After 2 days, I was counting my doves and one was missing. I tried to recall what had taken place and I remembered I forgot to produce that dove from my opening act.

I hurriedly rushed to my closet where my jacket with the loaded dove was and lo and behold the dove was there and thank goodness, he was still alive and well. And that's 2 days loaded inside my jacket.

Good thing my closet was cool inside.
I'll never forget that incident.

That's awesome! It amazes me what doves are capable of that other animals are not. I've had the same doves for about 3 years and they are very happy and healthy and really seem to enjoy performing. The strange thing is at home, they don't stay on my finger very long, but in front of an audience, even outdoors, they are on their best behavior. (I never clip the wings.) They really enjoy all the attention from the kids too.

Thanks.
Mike

Wow! 2 days later...thats incredible. I'm glad that the bird survived. I just hope that DJ Trix doesn't read your post!

I have experience with my dove, after I do the toss out dove to silk, I forgot to take off the dove from my tail pocket, I folded my coat put inside the case, and after 4 hrs I home, I just realize my dove missing, I found the dove still alive in my jacket.

I'm with DJ Trix on this one, at least to the point of animal cruelty. You should minimize the time the doves are loaded, even if its not convenient to do so. And with the stories of forgotten doves, how shameful! Good of you guys to post "bad example" reminders for the rest of us to learn from.