Playing with this and hoping to use it publically at some point. I just have a slight worry about whether there is any visibility/angle issues concerning the coin/washer that you've French dropped during the spellbound move? What do you think or is this just the unnecessary anxiety of someone who's new to an effect and new to the spellbound move? Is the secretly dropped coin more of a posible worry only if the spectators are standing ... i.e I'm asking if you are standing and the specs are sitting then the slight upward tilt of your hands hides the coin/washer completely (but not if you are both standing). Your views?
For what it's worth, I'd like to contribute a patter and presention kernal of an idea. Don't jump on it as it's just a rough idea! I have both the washer version and a version sold in the UK (that's where I am) with 2p coins. For the latter I am working on a patter line based on a 'miser' theme. Something along the lines of "most of us have too many expenses and too many bills that burn a hole in our pockets, but I know this magician who is frankly a bit of a miser - his money stayed in his pockets for so long that they burned a hole in his money" <display the 2 coins in each hand. I like the comic effect of this>. "Like the Dickens story & the ghosts of chrismas past, he saw the error of his ways and began spending freely <vanish hole with spellbound> but miserliness has not been banished in the world, it has merely departed from one individual only..." <open specs hand to reveal coin with 2 holes> "perhaps there's even more of it about"
Ok, it's a rough idea/patter line from someone who's not performed it publically yet - but I thought I'd share & it may help if you want to consider the coin version.

I performed Sankey's Holy Moly several times about 2 months ago in a strolling situation where the spectators and myself were standing. Being that I am short, I was concerned about the angle during spellbound, but just taking a step back when I did the move and raising my arms a bit higher than if I were table hopping took care of the angle from above.

I have a question regarding the ditch before the washer with 2 holes are revealed. Do you use Sankey's suggestion and put both hands in your pocket for a moment? Every time I perform it, I planned to take his suggestion, but find myself turning to the left and with my right hand giving the solid washer to a spectator to examine while ditching in my left pocket with my left hand. I just start using the effect a few months ago and plan on using it in my performance next weekend. It gets great reactions.


I wonder if this discussion is more appropriate in the secret sessions?
Larry

Larry - thanks for your answer, very helpful. Step back - great idea. Simple, but the best.
I'm let's hope some more experienced handlers with holy moly than I reply to your query about the coin ditch (I hope I get some more replies to my query too). In my practice sessions I'm doing as exactly as you do - I don't do Sankeys 2 hands in pocket. To me, I would not feel comfortable doing as sankey suggests. I would FEEL guilty and therefore show guilt & lack of relaxation, so to me your approach is spot on. I think when one is new to an effect you can't always handle things the way you might when you have done so for a couple of dozen/hundred times and I don't just mean due to technical profficiency. This effect is technically easy, but I need the confidence of dozens of performances before I try sankeys approach during this phase of the routine. BTW, I think a key tip of his is after the spellbound move is not to keep the solid washer/coin in your raised hand drawing attention to it. As I am drawing attention to their closed hand with my patter I am also pulling the 'solid' disk away with opposite hand in a nonchallant way. I use the 'freed' hand to now point to the spectators hand.
I take your point about secret sessions forum, I thought I was sailing a little close but I thought a casual browser wouldn't know what the hell I was talking about - 'French drop' and 'Spellbound move' are terms that instantly reveal to us but not spectators. All I'm making clear is that there are sleight of hand moves involved rather than pure magic(!) Maybe I should have played safe though and I totally respect your question.

Another idea.
After they have the washer.
Hole washer is shown in LH palm and the other in the RH.
A simple false take or shuttle to RH will do.
Place the B on the back of their hand and hold it there.
I suggest that I will attempt to make the whole (hole) thing pass thru their hand.
Rub, rub. "Feel it?" (Note that at this time your LH can go to pocket for a second.)
They reply.
"Well I did say that the the 'hole' thing would go didn't I?"
Lift your RH and how the B washer and end.

I find a rear pocket m***** makes a perfect way in and out of Holy Moley. Start clean and end clean.

Jaz: I am going to try that method this weekend at a strolling gig I have. Sankey explains that alternative handling as well, but I have always stuck with the spellbound move, even with some angle issues from the top and sometimes from the side. I felt that visually removing the hole was the most magical way to perform the effect. However, I am starting to think that the hole disappearing while on top of and touching the spectator's hand allows the magic to be just as strong because the visual removal is replaced with ALL the magic happening on and in their hand. But what really sold me on trying it this way, is your patter " . . make the whole thing pass through your hand . ." I love it! Plus not only is spectators' attention being directed to the top of the hand while you rub the washer and their expecting it to go through their hand somehow, but because you are so close to the spectator when rubbing the washer, your left hand is out of any viewing angle,(with everyone standing), making it easy to go to your pocket undetected. Thanks! I'll let you know the reactions I get next week.

Larry

Your only bad angle on a good spellbound is over the shoulder, but twisting your wrist inwards and bringing your hand towards your body covers that. Otherwise there are other coin changes you can consider, you can even do spellbound upside down (Kainoa teaches it in one of his books). I do love the visualness of the spellbound change, but if I have two people who know each other, then I'll put one in each of their hands, and then make the magic happen, I found this gets far stronger reactions, and I can clean up before the magic has even happened. Incidently I nearly always clean up by dropping into the jacket pocket whilst crossing my arms to hand a washer to somebody, a wonderful, wonderful ditch.

Paul

Very nice idea Paul!

Paul

Can you elaborate more on bringing the wrist inwards for spellbound? Do you mean holding the washer up more and towards your body? If so, can the spectator in front of you see the washer your holding very well at that angle?
Thanks for the idea of using 2 spectators. Does it really matter if they know each other for it to be effective? Also, your usual clean up while handing the washer to a spectator with a cross of the arm is how I have handled it, so knowing someone else does it the same way gives me some confidence.

Hmmm, it's not that you're tilting your hand up to create a bigger screan, just that instead of your wrist being parallel to the floor it's closer to perpendicular. Twisted not raised.

I guess it doesn't matter if they don't know each other, if you're ice-breaking then it'd be a good thing, I do it when they know each other because if you do something with one person, then the other always has that yerning look in their eye...
Paul

Paul,
Thank you for your contributions; bringing your hand towards your body - nice, reduces the amount one needs to step back (& may eliminate it). I too like the crossed arms bit. I sometimes ditch a TT by rolling up the sleeves and putting it under my arm during that motion.
I like your alternative of putting one in each of their hands too.

Thanks Paul! I will need to to decide which presentation to use before tomorrow evening, and when to go to the pocket. I am sure I am over thinking it because the misdirection is very strong. Although Mr. Freed's idea is one I want to consider for the future to avoid going into the pocket at all.

MRSmiles: I wouldn't bring your hands too close to your body as spectators will think there is something fishy with that, especially if you have a coat on when you are performing. Even without a coat, I find when handling coins or cards that it seems fairer to the audience when my hands are away from my body even if it has nothing to do with the method.

Jaz: I used your suggestion (shuttle pass and then on top of hand)at a strolling party this past Saturday night instead of the spellbound move. I performed it about 9 times. The reactions were wonderful, and it was the one that people were talking about the most. Thanks! I decided not use your patter though. While I like the "hole thing" play on words, I felt it would diminish the impact of the first magical moment when the hole vanishes. While it is magical, spectators would be expecting the washer to pass through their hand, a much greater effect than a hole disappearing. For maximum impact, I didn't want to raise their expectations and then have something less impressive happen. This way, both climaxes were just as strong as the other. Just my opinion of course.
Larry

Although you need to watch your angles, you don't need to perform it inside your jacket! You can often see who's watching and from where, and adjust accordingly.

Another presentation point I worked out with a friend of mine... Instead of saying "I'm vanishing this hole here and putting it into the one in your hand", so then when they open their hand they half-expect to see the hole there (due to you being a magician and all), I've found it stronger to simply vanish the hole, and not tell them where it's gone, but ask them to open their hand. The suprise is stronger, and the reactions much bigger.

Also handling wise I like to start with the whole set up in the left hand, so the right is free for meeting and greeting., Pull up the sleeves, transfering 1 to right hand, produce, show clearly (no need to examine), shuttle pass, produce, show clearly and then off you go. This handling makes the finalle much harder to back track. Incidently I work it from the edgegrip techniques, nice "empty" hands!

Good luck, and I hope you get as much pleasure from this trick as I have.

Paul

Paul: That's a good point not to tell people that the hole is going anywhere. Just vanish it. That's the way I have presented it, and as you stated, it creates a great surprise reaction when their hand is opened to reveal the 2 holes.