I am thinking of getting a wooden ball and vase. I've heard that the wood can swell depending on the weather or temperature and then the gimmick section will fit so snug that it's hard to remove it. Is this true? Has anyone experienced this?

I bought a cheap one made in cambodia or whatever and it's real bad.
unusable, basically.

Unfortunately, it can happen, even with the "expensive" ones, like a Victorian Regina Ball & Vase by Colin Rose. Hoping it's temporary and a "seasonal" thing. At least the wood isn't cracking...that would kill me.

Viking's Ball & Vase(s) do not seem to have this problem with reasonable care--our home is always "climate controlled".

Julie

As a woodworker, I can tell you that local climate is only one cause for this problem. If you want to see the complex side of things, follow the links to ratios by species. You'll find more about this issue than you ever wanted to know.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=512675

Especially, see the research by Purdue University if you want to really understand why wood does what it does.

In layman's terms, the type of wood used, where from the tree it was cut, the time of year the tree is cut (how much sap is in the wood), the method used to dry the wood, the amount of moisture in the wood at the time the item is made (or in this case, turned), and many other factors are at play with wood, which is a dynamic organism, and not merely a hunk of conveniently stable material.

In the case of a simple ball vase, the wood species is very important. Some woods are better than others for turning, but the list is even more narrowed when more is at stake than just outward appearance.

The Purdue charts list only domestic woods. The ratios are different for exotics, some of which contain much more oil. These woods are denser and tend to be more stable, but that is still no guarantee. I have seen a piece of Cocobolo, straight as an arrow, and heavy as an anvil curl like a potato chip when ripped.

The close tolerances of multiple-part small magic props is such that even the smallest changes in the wood can have very negative effects on the abilty of the prop to function.

I'm sure Jim Riser could offer his own insights to this. There is certainly more than a single reason why he chooses certain wood species for his turned magic props.

~michael

The reason mine did not work is that there was literally no work done on the inside. this left jagged edges and other horrible things that would catch on each other and keep the aparatus from working as expected.

and the outside was not much better. And didn't look anything like the photo from the website I purchased it from.

Check the killer version at RNT II (Tell Jake I sent you).

Humidity is a very real concern with turned wood items requiring critical fits. Over the years I have examined, repaired, and made my share of ball vases, solid cups, cones, coin boxes, wands, pillboxes, etc. As Michael mentioned above, wood is a breathing substance and will change sizes depending upon its environment. All we can do is to remember this and design accordingly. Choosing woods carefully and using fully dried woods is critical.

I see newcomers at wood turning who are still making all of the beginner mistakes and old time wood turners who attempt to make too elaborate an item with all types of gluing up of precision fitted parts. Both extremes will eventually lead to failure of the wooden item.

I live in an area of the country where the average relative humidity is around 10%. I've seen many ball vase lids and pillbox lids with a big split going from the rim to the handle. These were made in much more humid climates and possibly from still wet (green) wood. When such items arrive in the dry Southwest, the parts all start to shrink. What usually happens is that the lid shrinks tightly onto the shell. This gives the lid wood no where to go down in size. So it splits. Wood items that have been glued up from several types of wood tend to split along the glue joints. They really tend to split more often due to different rates of expansion/contraction between the various types of wood used in making the item. People who do not live in a dry climate seem unaware of this problem with wood.

There are work arounds to prevent such lid splits. Some of these work arounds make for much improved "performance" with the items; but would upset a few collectors. My main interests are in performance designed pillboxes. Forget everything you ever heard from collectors about pillboxes.  Collectors have very different concerns than performers.  The pillboxes I currently make incorporate several features that make them very "performer friendly" but would not be understood by collectors. I have developed a system which allows the lid and ball shells to breathe separately and at their own rates to eliminate lid splitting. In addition, my latest pillboxes allow the performer to lock the ball into position within the double shell to eliminate rattle during a performance. Also, the double shell balls are made so that they may be set down on a table top without exposing the shell joint.

People who own my pillboxes know about, use, and understand these features. Fussy collectors who could not make anything themselves have certain criteria for things like pillboxes. These criteria are aimed at the items looking good on a shelf rather than usability and durability of the item. Collectors, in general, do not seem to understand the importance of the features I have put in to my pillboxes and expect pillboxes to always be made as they were in the past. Such thinking stiffles the art of magic and movement into the future. Enough of this rant...

When working with exotics, heat is a major concern. Michael, your coco may have heated while being ripped. This will quickly cause bending. It is best to rip such woods is on a sharp bandsaw. If the wood was branch wood rather than trunk wood, this can often happen too. It is critical when sanding exotics (or most other woods) to not overheat the wood while sanding. Ideally the wood turner has the skills and tools to turn the wood so that no (or at least minimal) sanding is required. Burnt rims are a dead give-a-way. Interestingly enough, though, burning the rims as seen on Russian nesting doll inner joints is a good feature for durability. You really need to know your woods and the intended uses for the completed items. Exotics will check and eventually fall apart where overheated.

I never make any turned items from wood that I have not let dry here for at least 3 years. This greatly improves the stability of the wood. There are ways to seal the wood as much as possible from humid conditions so that the item will be much more stable that otherwise. In order for a pillbox to work correctly, the inner surface of the lid traditionally needed to be made a certain way. This method of manufacture is exactly what can lead to lid splitting. This is why I make my shell gripping feature as I do on my later pillboxes.

There is not enough time nor space here for lessons on wood turning. On a regular ball vase, you might be better off getting one with a slightly loose fitting shell. This slop will avoid some problems.

Please do not ask me to describe how I make my pillbox lids nor how I can lock the balls inside the double shells. Those who own the latest pillboxes from me know how everything works and how to use them. The copycat builders do not need such info.

I am not seeking orders for my pillboxes. The current waiting list is over three years long and I am in no hurry. Such items are very time consuming to make properly and I just do not have the time right now to mess with them. I am still drying some special woods
Jim

I would highly recommened a vase from Mr Riser. I got one a few years back and it looks and works as good as the 1st day I got it. The wait is well worth it and would love to get a few more from him....Brian

As a new pillbox maker, I am very interested in this thread. I can add that typically wood shrinks across the grain roughly about 20% to 30% more than radially along the grain, depending on the species. In species when these shrinkage rates are closer in value, the wood is determined to be more stable. There are several I can think of, off th top of my head, Mesquite, Box Elder(not to be confused with Boxwood)and Mahogany.

When this shrinkage occurs it causes the wood, that has been turned perfectly round, to go slightly oval. Causing the shell to loosen or tighten depending on the orientation of the grain. Consider the calamity when the wood for the shell is turned from dry wood and the vase from green wood !! The shell does not shrink but the vase does all of its' shrinkage.

In the boxes I make, I try to make the shells from the same piece of wood as the vases. In my world, the grain is matched, the color is the same and the properties of expansion and shrinkage are similar. So even with humid and drier conditions the working properties, hopefully, reamin the same.

WIth the exotic woods I am now working with, many if not all have never been made into a pill box. So these will be viewed as experimantal until I see how the "turn" out.

Angelo