Don't know the exact name of this force, but it's from the Larry Jennings "Thoughts On Cards" DVD. I'll describe it and then I'll pose a question...

It's basically a Hindu shuffle force except that when the spectator says "stop" you place the pack containing the force card face down on top of the already shuffled cards in your other hand, but jogged towards you for half their length. You then flip the entire deck face up as a unit (keeping their jogged condition), revealing the force card (original bottom card of the deck) in the "middle" of the 2 jogged packets.

Other than that one clip, I have not seen this used anywhere else. Have any of you seasoned workers used this? And if so, how convincing have you found it to be? Looks like a good wrinkle on the standard Hindu force, but I'm wondering how well it plays for those who have used it.

Thanks,
Ron

I've used it a couple of times in performance, and it has flown by just fine. It's easy and convincing, plus good fun because it is very easy to control the card from that position if you want to.

This force handling is also published in his colour changing deck routine "Transmutation" in "Larry Jennings on Card and Coin Handling".

Denis

L.J.'s routine "Transmuted Cards" can be found in "Jenning's '67" (R. Kaufman). It uses this force for three cards whose backs change color.
Cardamagically,
<<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>>

Thanks guys. Anybody else?

Ron

This might be obvious but when you say "standard Hindu force" does that mean one where the force ends up on top of the pile that is being "shuffled on to"? If so I would have thought this would be slightly more effective.

In the force you describe couldn't a spectator realise it's a force simply by repeating the shuffle? I agree it should go unnoticed esp when done casually and perhaps no spectator would ever repeat the shuffle anyway. It just seems to me that a standard Hindu force is so similar to this variation, but it leaves you protected in these rare cases. (I admit though that I haven't given it a chance by trying it...)

Alakazam,

I'm not 100% sure that I'm understanding what you described. Basically, instead of showing the bottom (force) card when the spectator says stop, you place that packet face down (but injogged) on the packet in your other (already shuffled) hand and then proceed as in my original post.

I doubt a spectator would realize it's a force, but perhaps a savvy spectator could figure it out by repeating the shuffle.

The reason I am looking for a variation on the Hindu force is that I was recently called on the standard Hindu force by a spec. She said "but that's the card that was on the bottom." This took me by surprise as she knows nothing at all about magic and is not skilled at handling cards (and no, there was nothing lacking or deficient in my execution - I've done it many times before). No matter that I then did the throw off thing by repeating the Hindu shuffle and showing a different card on the bottom every few shuffles to "prove" that you arrive at a different card with each shuffle. It still felt odd to her and she remained only half-convinced that the selection was fair. I don't know - maybe she's just that rare sort of spectator that has a sixth sense for those things. Nevertheless, that experience left me doubting the efficacy of the Hindu force, but perhaps that is a topic for a different thread.

Anyway, thanks for your input.

Ron

Oh OK I see what you mean; I do pretty much the same with an overhand shuffle, and yes, although no spectator has ever mentioned anything, I have had doubts.

Perhaps what I was trying to say (and took to mean a "standard" Hindu shuffle force) may help then. My idea was that force ends up on top of the pile that is being "shuffled on to" (using a break) and so can't be recreated in the same way as if it were just on the bottom. (Does that make sense?)

Sorry Alakazam - still not following you. Don't know how you can do the same thing with an overhand shuffle, as they are different shuffles altogether. Sounds like we may be describing two different things here.

I was doing a Cards Across routine and the standard Hindu Force was used to determine how many cards would "travel" across. Once the Hindu Force card is revealed, there is no need to continue shuffling cards, so the force card does not "end up" anywhere - you just hold up the packet you were shuffling from and show the bottom card.

Anyway, I'll give the Jennings variation a try. Thanks!

Ron
:)

Use the Classic Force...nothing else compares...The Very Best of Gary Ouellet Vol3 has a nice force.

I think that depends if there's a reason for using something other than a classic force. I do a blindfold routine where the Hindu shuffle makes sense because sometimes there isn;t someone close enough, and I cant see to get the cards to them. (Its a comedy thing where they suspect I can see all along) Anyway, the "display" of the chosen card to everyone also lends credence to the methid of selection and have never had anyone question it. (I use a variation where I do flash a changing bottom card the first round of shuffling)

RS, I've PMd you

I haven't seen this move, but from your description, it seems like the force would work better if you dropped the right hand cards onto the left hand cards *outjogged*, rather than injogged. Then you could display the force card by lifting up your left hand, so the faces of the cards were facing the spectator. (Or--if it's ok for you to see the card too, you could just turn your left hand palm down.) Your left palm will cover most of the card that's on the bottom of the deck, while most of the force card will be visible. You can gesture toward this card with your right hand as you ask them to remember the card they stopped you at.

Dafin77,

That's not how Jennings does it in the DVD, but it seems your method would work too! Good variation - thanks!

Ron