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fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Has anyone attempted a price guide for vintage and other collectible cups? I've been tracking prices for Ross Bertram cups over the past 8 months or so (I posted something on this the other night in the "Tangled Web We Weave" section of this Forum). Just wondering if anyone may be doing the same for collectible cups generally.
Fortasse |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
The problem with trying to come up with anything like that is the price fluctuations that have shown up lately.
I was discussing this very subject relative to books with Dick Hatch this afternoon. Ebay is more like a garage sale than like a real auction. If you go by eBay prices alone, a set of Bertram cups is currently worth $711.50, right? Not really. That's what a set was worth to the guy who won them. The second bidder didn't seem to think so. To him, they were worth $701.50. The best you can do is ballpark figures. What is a copy of the third edition of Derren Brown's Pure Magic worth? Somebody thought it was worth over $700, even though the publisher still had them for sale at a much lower price. So ebay prices depend on how much money the guy who wants an item the most is willing to pay for it. It may not be a true indicator of the worth of the item. Is a set of cups worth what you paid for it or what you can get for it? I wouldn't even venture to write such a guide.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
fortasse Inner circle 1201 Posts |
Bill, you're probably right but then again if you were to plot the selling prices for a given set of cups over a given period at a variety of auctions (Ebay, Martinka, KT Magic, etc.),you could probably get a fairly idea of the price range that the cups should be expected to sell for. No, it would'nt be a scientific measurement but it would be a guide.
Fortasse |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Considering that I predicted right after the Martinka auction when the Bertram cups went for $2000+ that they would be down to about $700 in a year, maybe I could write a rough guide. However, there is a factor that we can't figure in.
We know how many RnT II cups of each model have been made. How many sets of Bertram cups are there? What about P&L? Which is rarer -- a set of Connie Haden cups or a set of Golden Gate Mini cups? Which one is worth more? How much did the last set of Connie Haden cups that came up for auction on any of the above sites go for? What are these cups actually worth? I know the answers to all of these and they will surprise you.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts |
Bill:
What about a RNT Copper Combo set? Do you think they are worth more than the $25 I paid for them back in 1978? Tony |
Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
Cup prices are all over the map. A while ago I know of 3 sets of Bertrams (I had one in the mix) went for $1500 to $2025. Now like Bill says $600-700. I could be all wrong but for a good number of years the best designed, and well made cups were the Bertram and Danny Dew Paul Fox cups. Should add in Busby PF cups. Sure there were others, but these seemed to be in demand until a few years ago. Now we have a large number of makers putting out some incredible cups. Like RNT2. What ever style you like, you could find there. I would imagine that's why the real PF cups that were going for $800 to $1000 a few years ago are barely getting $400 now.
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-01-26 00:09, Tony Iacoviello wrote: Definitely. Depending on condition, they could bring as much as $300 or so. Regarding the prices of Paul Fox cups, there are so many different versions of it, with prices to match, that it is very difficult to say what a set will bring. A set of Type 1 PF/DD cups will bring more if a collector wants a set, than, say a set of Type 2 PF/DD cups. In fact, if you have a set of Type 1 cups, let me know. I have a buyer for them. Two years ago, they were hard to move. A set of the ones Rings and Things made for Danny will bring about $800, if you can find a set. However, if they were owned by someone of note, they might bring more money. That's another part of the equation. It also has to do with how many of them are out there vs. how many buyers there are. If there are 25 hard core collectors, and all of them have all the PF/DD cups they want, then they won't be in the market for another set, unless it has some interesting provenance. So the intrinsic value of those cups goes down a bit. A set that belonged to Gazzo is worth more than a set that belonged to someone you never heard of. I would pay more for Michael Ammar's PF/DD cups than I would a set that belonged to someone that nobody knows. Same with Frank Garcia's cups. Now, to answer the question I posed earlier -- nobody knows how many sets of P&L cups or Bertram cups are out there. So it's a question without an answer. David Ben has a waiting list of people who want Bertram cups. So does another collector from Canada. So those will stay up for a while. As far as I know, there hasn't been a set of Connie Haden cups on any of the major auctions in several years, if at all. The exact number made is conjectural. I won't divulge the number out there, but it is larger than the number of those Golden Gate mini cups. The Golden Gate mini cups have never appeared on these magic auctions, either. There are three known sets. I am not going to say what I paid for either of these sets. But the Haden cups were more expensive than the mini's. Why? Supply and demand. Most C&B workers who also collect would give a chunk of flesh for the Hadens because they are well known. This is why you can't place a price on things like this. All you can do is make an educated guess.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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