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Genghis Regular user Derby UK 180 Posts 
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Some cups are designed to give the impression that they can't possibly hold the final loads which come out of them.
What is it about the design which makes this so? Which cups are most famous for this? TIA |
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Mickkn New user Denmark 77 Posts
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Nice question, I really wan't an answer to that too
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BSutter Special user Sitting on a pile of 582 Posts
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A careful study of Cup design will reveal the answer. I will attempt to get you there faster. There are so many designs that produce this effect that I can not say which is "the most famous".
The Paul Fox Cups provide such an illusion, as do the Sherwood Cups. Speaking in generalities from a design standpoint, many of the rounded top Cups produce this illusion, it is also worth noting that many of the "Traditional Straight Walled Cups" provide this effect also, they may range in size from a Cup that accepts a golf ball (or smaller) as a final load to a large grapefruit. In summation there is no hard and fast answer to your question. I routinely produce a final load that will not even fit in the cup no matter who tries. Regards, Bill |
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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It's something like the "boomerang" optical illusion where two identical objects look visually different when placed side by side.
That's why I liked the round top Super Animals. The small tops make whatever sat on top of them appear even larger. If I had set a ball on top of something shaped like a soup can, they simply wouldn't look as big. If you look on the Sherwood site, he has a design sketch of the cups with a large load inside. You can see how the cup shape closely hugs the shape of the load.
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Genghis Regular user Derby UK 180 Posts
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Quote:
If you look on the Sherwood site, he has a design sketch of the cups with a large load inside. You can see how the cup shape closely hugs the shape of the load. I couldn't find that drawing but there ain't half some nice cups there!
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Dave V Inner circle Las Vegas, NV 4824 Posts
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The drawing is part of his menu section down the left side of the page.
http://www.sherwoodmagic.com
No trees were killed in the making of this message, but a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
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Genghis Regular user Derby UK 180 Posts
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Doh!
Couldn't see it for looking! Thanks |
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Robert Kohler Special user Fayetteville, Arkansas 520 Posts
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There are several factors that contribute to the illusion - cup design, final load type and color. Typically, if the final load is bright in color - red, yellow, or even white - it tends to pop out visually. I think that is why baseballs are so popular. Check out the 'Ever So Sleightly' forum - Bill Palmer there knows everything there is to know about C&B.............
We judge ourselves by our intentions - others judge us by our actions.....
<BR> <BR>B. Wilson |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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Bob:
Thanks for your vote of confidence. I really don't know everything there is to know, but I am trying to learn it all. Basically, the rounded top design, such as Paul Fox, Monti and Sherwood, took a short cylinder whose inside diameter was a tiny bit larger than the proposed load and superimposed either an egg-shaped or rounded dome that was the same radius of curvature as the proposed final load. The taper of the top of the cup produces a surface that is much smaller than the proposed load. A white or yellow ball on top of a patinized copper cup will look huge. In the French street cups, a similar illusion is produced by the taper, which goes to a small platform, plus the occasional use of a ball that has a tendency to "settle" a bit, such as a cloth ball filled with millet. Put one of those balls on top of a cup, and it will actually take on a form that appears to be a little too large for the cup.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Magic1 Elite user Los Angeles 408 Posts
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Exactly! And when one includes the fibonacci sequence (divided by the square root of pi) and uses a cloth ball filled with amaranth seeds from Belgium, you really create the illusion of a larger load. We couldn't be more in agreement.
Just joshing with ya Bill (who's lecture on renaissance faire performing I saw at the Magic Castle) Have a great Mother's day everyone! Magic1 Bill, your knowledge about these things is often astounding (and unsettling)! Thanks for sharing it! M |
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JamesinLA Inner circle Los Angeles 3400 Posts
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I've noticed that besides the conical shape of the upper half of a cup contributing the smaller looking cup, that lemons add to the effect because they are also oval in shape, which allows lemons to take perfect advantage of that conical cup interior. Also, when you sit the lemons on top of the cups, you do it long ways so that makes them look even bigger in comparison to the cups they are sitting on.
Jim
Oh, my friend we're older but no wiser, for in our hearts the dreams are still the same...
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Brett Sherwood New user 96 Posts
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In answer to my cups and their continual and ludicrous comparison with street workers cups; I have already answered this in detail on the magic café previously and will copy the necessary partial quote for those interested here.
Quote:
Just for the record, I do not recommend my cups for street work, not primarily because of the metal used, but more because of the size and should I decide to ever engineer a set they would be much larger for greater visibility plus as hard as feasibly possible. Each of my cups is over six ounces of copper, very durable and sturdy. All smooth cups will show blemishes, because there is no camouflage – like a blank canvas reveals all. All cups will eventually get marks if you ‘USE’ them and believe me my cups have the heft and durability to be used on a daily bases – they are definitely “workers” – just ask many of the top professionals out there who use them daily. If you do not believe me read what a well respected gentleman with a long history with cups has to say about my copper cups: Sincerely, Brett Sherwood |
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BSutter Special user Sitting on a pile of 582 Posts
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Brett,
The comments you and Pete made are 100% accurate. Good post. Regards, Bill Sutter |
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Brett Sherwood New user 96 Posts
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Thanks Bill.
You are a true gentleman. Kind Regards, Brett Sherwood |
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ursusminor Elite user Norway 443 Posts
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I got my set of Sherwood smooth copper cups recently, and they are beautiful. Whats even more important, they handle beautifully.
I havent got all that many other sets, but they rank up there at the very top. When it comes to the optical illusion of the final load being too big for the cup, yeah, it's a nice effect. But let me quote Ken Brooke It's not the SIZE, it's the CHANGE!
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them
pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened." - Winston Churchill" |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts
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Van Dokkum cups are great but he does not spin or turn his cups.
Of course, any talented person can do this regardless of where they come from. American items have been known for "rock solid" quality in the past. Americans are also known for being capitalists and trying to get rich. Instead of paying US wages they find places overseas that will work for pennies on the dollar. In an effort to try to maximize profits to the extreme, they spend as little as possible to try to get something that sort of resembles "rock solid" quality but is really nowhere close. Cheaper Labor Lower quality materials (thinner metal, scrap metal) Eliminate quality assurance inspections A "just get it done" mentality as opposed to "get it right" And they won't even pay someone that speaks english to write up the instructions for the product so the instructions are ripe with typos and nonsense. It seems the hope is that nobody cares enough to cause a fuss.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-05-16 12:44, Frank Starsini wrote: Frank: Van Dokkum has spun cups. He doesn't do it as a rule, but he is a metal spinner. Also, CNC production is a kind of turning. I have watched his CNC machine in action. It's a show in its own right.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24314 Posts
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To tell the truth, the Millenium Cups are actually only fair to middling cups. They will take a very large load, but they are not polished. If a polished finish is important to you, you will prefer the Riser jumbos or street cups or the RnT2 Jumbos and/or street cups. Some might even find the Michael Lee cups somewhat unwieldy.
The sturdiest of all are the Gazzo and Gary Animal cups. However, one "unsung" set of cups is the Jedinat Jumbo cup. They are smaller than Gazzo cups, but large enough to work with. But what do I know about cups? I only have a couple of sets.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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walid ahumada Special user sinaloa, mexico 892 Posts
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Besides the cup design.
if you use WHITE final loads they will look biger.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
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Glenn Godsey Special user 737 Posts
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Quote:
On 2007-05-22 14:15, walid ahumada wrote: This is very true. It is a well known tenet of Gestalt principals of art and design. Unfortunately, white is also more likely to flash if not well covered. Best regards, Glenn Godsey |
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Posted: Mar 22, 2007 10:56 am 
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