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Led Heflin New user 55 Posts |
I'm not a rank beginner, as I've been interested in and learning magic for years, but I am a newbie when it comes to fully understanding and acquiring the sleight of hand skills to be a real performer. That said, I read many a thread on the forum about card brand choices-- I've got small hands, and have found bridge-size cards much easier in the past. After much reading and at least one deeply frustrating episode of getting some fanning moves down then failing with a new deck, I figured I'd better go out and get a few easily available decks for comparison's sake.
This was a fairly inexpensive endeavour, but I hope the recounting of it might save a fellow newbie or two some time and trouble. Of course, you may come to very different conclusions, and the more experienced card workers have plenty of threads full of advice you should check out if you're curious. But I hope these quick reviews will prove helpful to a fellow beginner in choosing what to try, at least, and they're all in one post rather than a long thread. I talked in each case about what I'm working on-- fans, spreads and DLs. I also am working on the classic pass, but that seems to be un-influenced by which cards I'm using. I've been working so much with poker size cards that now the bridge size seem weird! I guess this is a good thing. And practice works miracles-- a week ago, I couldn't do a one-hand cut with poker size cards. Now I can. I love how that works! Here's a quick rundown of what I found with different American brand decks as a beginner-- bridge size: Bicycle-- really easy to fan, spread, and DL. Thick and springy. But every time I've borrowed a deck, it's been poker size. Guess it's time to buck up. Unbranded plastic deck from Las Vegas-- impossible to fan. Hard to spread. Plastic ain't good! Run screaming! poker size: Gemaco plastic coated (not plastic cards-- paper with plastic coating)-- Very nice for fanning and spreading. Pretty easy to DL. This was a custom deck for a business, and I don't recall ever seeing "regular" Gemacos. They could easily be used if you happen to borrow a pack for a trick. (The boxes have a handy peek window function, but even the most daft audience would notice it.) Aviator-- Even a newbie like me can notice that these are markedly thinner than Bikes. I found them quite good for fanning and spreading, but noticeably harder to do a good break/DL with. These will do in a pinch, but might screw up learning to DL with the more common brands that are thicker, like Bikes and Bees. Besides, even the ace of spades looks pretty lame. Hoyle-- Just as impossible to fan as the plastic cards. This surprised me. Fine for DL, but don't plan to impress anybody with flourishes unless you've worked up an impressive move that involves clumping cards together. Bicycle-- Nice, easy fanning and spreading. Break and DL seemed somehow a little tough to me, but after just a few minutes of work, it wasn't so hard at all. There's a good reason these are the most common choice (at least on this side of the Atlantic). Don't fight it, Luke. Embrace the Bicycle. Bee-- I was surprised at how easy I found fanning and spreading with Bees. Easier for me than Bikes. They seem perhaps a little stiffer or thicker than Bikes. There seem to be plenty of good magic-related reasons to avoid the back design, which has no white border, but if it wasn't for that, I'd be tempted to use Bees instead of Bikes. I'm just a contrarian, I suppose. The moral of this story is, perhaps, that simply going with what most of the forum recommends in the first place will save you time and money. But I did, on the other hand, get a nice little education in card brands. Wonder if I'll ever need it again? Hope this will prove useful to my fellow newbies!
Let him borrow and return his handkerchief like a man, and trust to his sleight of hand.
<BR> <BR>--Edwin Sachs <BR> <BR>http://www.myspace.com/ledheflin |
jimhlou Inner circle 3698 Posts |
Very good advice and lots of good info - thanks,
Jim |
spoofy New user 6 Posts |
Oo awesome
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SeanD13 Loyal user Bristol, RI 263 Posts |
I think you are right on the money with this one.
good job SeanD13 |
Nyte Dragon New user Tampa, Fl 66 Posts |
Excellent job, and thank you so much for the info. I've never bothered to stray any further than Poker Sized Bikes, so I'm glad to have this information at hand.
Draco |
calexa Inner circle Germany 1635 Posts |
Thanks for the input. When it comes to cards, most beginners start with Bikes, not because they think these are the best, but because everybody tells them they are the best.
But it is always best to come to your own conclusion after an indept examination! Carsten
Optimists have more fun.....
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Loual4 Special user Montreal, Canada 670 Posts |
I am very impressed that you actually tried all these brands! I actually tried a few of them myself and agree with your findings. You did a very good job!
For those who have never tried the other decks, Personally I found it interesting and educational to actually feel the difference in handling, not just hearing about it. Maybe that is something of interest to everyone, but that is just my opinion. Good work Seamus! Louis Jutras |
Led Heflin New user 55 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-04-30 09:12, Loual4 wrote: Thanks, Louis, and all-- Glad this is proving useful. I think I'm just driven to work that way. That, or I'm just loopy-- I got a new Gypsy jazz-style guitar, and I had to try every brand of Gypsy jazz string, just in case I was missing the one that made the guitar really sing. Same here-- just wanted the best tools to make the job easy. But I find that I'm benefitting tremendously in practicing with all these decks, because it's teaching me to make a move work with whatever's at hand. I'm just grabbing whatever's closeby, then switching in 15 minutes or so, and I think I'm doing much better work now in general. That might make it worthwhile picking up a different brand or two.
Let him borrow and return his handkerchief like a man, and trust to his sleight of hand.
<BR> <BR>--Edwin Sachs <BR> <BR>http://www.myspace.com/ledheflin |
docz Regular user Norway 123 Posts |
Arn't those WPC cards just Bee cards with white borders? If you like Bee's you might look into those..
Personally I've found that practising with poker sized Bikes, enables me to do most of my moves with any deck. Doc-Z |
Led Heflin New user 55 Posts |
Doc-Z--
I'm not sure-- what are the WPC cards? I'm not familiar with that.
Let him borrow and return his handkerchief like a man, and trust to his sleight of hand.
<BR> <BR>--Edwin Sachs <BR> <BR>http://www.myspace.com/ledheflin |
docz Regular user Norway 123 Posts |
A sorry.. a misspell on my behalf, I thought it was World Poker Championship, but it was really World Poker Tour, so the correct acronym is WPT They are manufactured by the USPCC, the same company that makes Bee, Bikes and so on.. They have a diamond back, with white borders and the WPT logo printed on them, look like Casino cards, and I think it's the Bee card that is used as a base for these, allthough I'm not completely sure..
Here's a picture of them: http://www.kardwell.com/images/wpt-cards-diamond-back.jpg Doc-Z |
DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
WPT made by Bee are excellent cards. They handle the same as regular Bee brand, but some people don't care for the back design. It doesn't matter to me, I use them. I picked some up at "Books A Million" for a $1 a pack on clearance a few months ago.
Cardamagically, <<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20 "Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value." |
docz Regular user Norway 123 Posts |
I've found some Bee cards with white borders aswell. They are called Bee Casino Cards:
http://www.kardwell.com/images/bee-casino.jpg Doc-Z |
F-Hmagic New user 56 Posts |
I always used the cheapest cards that I could get my hands on, because I knew that I would just be "messing them up." Thus I could always have extra cards lying around, for whatever reason I would need them. There is an amazing difference between the brands of cards (even more pronounced from the no-brand cards)!
This is a great little bit of research that I will be putting to use for future purchases! Thanks!
What?! How'd that get there?!
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The Amazing Noobini Inner circle Oslo, Norway 1658 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-05-02 12:28, KRZ4kardz wrote: I guess we must be living in different dimensions. The cards with Bee design faces by USPCCo for WPT with white borderes are NOT in any way similar to Bees. They just have Bee graphics because that is in a way norm for USPCCo casino cards. But they have different paper, are thinner, and handle COMPLETELY differently than Bees. They do not feel like Bees, they do not sound like Bees. Bee Club Special (regular Bee cards) are around 0.290mm in thickness, whereas the WPT cards are 0.285mm which is exactly same as Bicycle Rider Back cards. In my opinion the paper used in the WPT cards is still different from that of Bikes. At least the few decks I have run through of these WPT cards have had a nastier feel and a lower life span than Bikes. The other Bee cards mentioned here are called Bee Premium Casino. This is also a different card than regular Bees and it is thicker at 0.305mm which makes them the thickest cards I have ever measured. Ever. They do FEEL Bee'ish however and have a lifespan at least equal to regular Bees. In my opinion a superior card to regular Bees. And they have white borders. But these are not cards for people who like thin easy flexible cards. I've used the same deck of Bee Premium Casino now every day for 3 months and they are still pretty good to faro and work with. Although by now my DLs with them are more than a little undeceptive. These same hands can squeeze maybe 3 weeks out of a WPT deck.
"Talk about melodrama... and being born in the wrong part of the world." (Raf Robert)
"You, my friend, have a lot to learn." (S. Youell) "Nonsensical Raving of a lunatic mind..." (Larry) |
docz Regular user Norway 123 Posts |
http://www.kardwell.com/wpt-diamond-back.htm
"These are the playing cards used by the pros on TV's World Poker Tour. They are made from Bee Playing Card stock for superior snap, slide, and shuffle. Featuring mirror images of the World Poker Tour logo on each card back, these decks are ideal for any serious poker player." Says that they are printed on Bee stock... Maybe they use less coating since they are thinner? Doc-Z |
DomKabala Inner circle I've grown old after diggin' holes for 2827 Posts |
You have to take reviews of cards with a "grain of salt". Everyone has their "expert" opinion about how cards feel and behave. Noobini says we must live in different dimensions...now what does that mean? Nothing. Noobini, are you an ex USPCC employee? I doubt that. So who are you to make that statement..."The cards with Bee design faces by USPCCo for WPT with white borderes are NOT in any way similar to Bees". You have no proof to this statement and thus this is considered as conjecture. Cards are cards and we all have our preferences. I stated that they handle the same as the regular Bee brand (which is my opinion) and not to be taken as "written in stone". The debate as to which cards are the best will go on forever. The truth is... there is no such thing. What is considered as a treasure to one, may be considered as trash to another. It's a matter of trial and error for each individual to find out for their self, and no one can be be considered as the "card Guru".
Cardamagically, <<<KRaZy4KaRdZ>>>
We don't stop playing when we grow old...we grow old when we stop playing.
God is enough, let go, let God. Gal 2:20 "Anything of value is not easily attained and those things which are easily attained are not of lasting value." |
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