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jocdoc Inner circle Carlsbad, CA 1183 Posts |
Bob Elliott has taught us to employ the "Kraunch move" (sp?), rather than the standard paddle. The difference between the two being the direction that the thumb spins the knife. He asserts that the Kraunch move is undetectable because there is no flash compared to the standard paddle move.
Here's the question: Bob tells us that the move has never been published. He learned it many years ago "underground" and he can't recall from whom. Has anyone else heard of this move and, if so, please reference it for us? Thanks. jeff in san diego
Life is an improv. The game goes on...
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Never heard of it by that name. However, if your description is accurate, it's not really new, nor is it underground. And contrary to what Bob says, there will be a flash. It will just be on the other side of the knife.
One of the best moves is The Dagger Sleight. which was published about 150 years ago in The Secret Out. It fools people who know the paddle move.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
jocdoc Inner circle Carlsbad, CA 1183 Posts |
Thanks for the speedy reply, Bill. I'm still curious as to where the name came from - Bob is so adamant about it - all he remembers is that it begins with a "K". Unfortunately, his memory is not what it used to be (which is a shame for someone who used to teach the Harry Lorayne memory course and demonstrated same on Johnny Carson). I'm trying to help him figure out from whence it came.
Flashing hasn't been much of a problem for me in my particular routine. I picked up a set of custom pharmacist-style knives from JP Jackson here in San Diego (made by one of his friends). In my medical practice, I use them to teach the art of pill splitting and what happens to pills once they're in the stomach (they slowly dissolve into nothingness). Thanks, again. jeff in san diego
Life is an improv. The game goes on...
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DwightPA Regular user Dwight Powell 113 Posts |
Bill,
Where can "The Secret Out" be located? I would like to learn that sleight. Dwight |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
It's not a particularly easy book to find; however, there is a book called The Early History of the Paddle Trick by some guy who wears a cup on his head all the time. The text is reproduced there in its entirety, along with the history of the trick up until the move was combined with an actual paddle-shaped object.
PM me for details.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
JimMaloney Inner circle 1184 Posts |
Quote:
On 2007-09-10 12:44, DwightPA wrote: Contrary to what Bill says, it is quite easy to find: a search on used.addall.com or bookfinder.com will turn up multiple copies. I believe it was also recently picked up by a print-on-demand company which would make it even more readily available. It also appears on eBay pretty frequently, so you can also check there. -Jim
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 17th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)
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RevJohn Inner circle Oregon City Oregon, Oregon 2473 Posts |
Do all the copies of Secret Out list for over 100 dollars? Those on bookfinder did... just wondering what print on demand company picked this up?
Thanks, RevJohn |
Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
I paid $35 for the copy I purchased about 15 years ago. It needed rebinding. The one to get is the one published by Dick and Fitzgerald. The one that was written by Cremer doesn't have exactly the same material, and omits the Dagger Sleight.
I recently purchased an earlier copy of the American Edition which has a loose cover, and paid $75 for it. So the book isn't cheap. And if you don't get the American edition, you won't have what you are looking for. The cups and balls sections of both books are basically the same. All of the ones on Bookfinder.com are the Cremer edition. They do not have the Dagger Sleight in them. This is assuming that the people who published the softcover reprint copied the actual Cremer edition and did not rely on the faulty information at the LOC to get the author's name. +++++++++++++++++ added a few minutes later: I found one on bookfinder.com that was listed as being written by Frikell. Even though this information is completely incorrect, it is the correct edition. Frikell had absolutely nothing to do with the writing of this book. I researched this very thoroughly a few months ago. Some (including H. Adrian Smith) were convinced that H.L. Williams wrote it. This would have been possible if Williams had been a writer at the age of 17. Since the bulk of his output was published in the 1870's and later, this is very doubtful.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
jocdoc Inner circle Carlsbad, CA 1183 Posts |
I found an interesting link (http://www.illusionata.com/mpt/view.php?id=37&type=articles) entitled "The Origins of Some Conjuring Works" by Charles Rulfs. He discusses Cremer and the Secret Out.
I also found your book, Bill, "The Early History of the Paddle Trick" for $16.50 at http://www.adessoverlag.com/padlbook.htm for those that are interested. jeff in san diego
Life is an improv. The game goes on...
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jocdoc Inner circle Carlsbad, CA 1183 Posts |
I just picked up a copy of "The Secret Out" (Dick and Fitzgerald version) for $35 on E-Bay. It's an old library copy, well-worn, but said to be intact.
I love reading magic history - can't wait to browse through this. Thanks for your insights, Bill. jeff in san diego http://www.medicine-in-motion.com
Life is an improv. The game goes on...
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
You were really fortunate to find that copy so cheap. Even a library copy, well-worn, is usually more expensive.
Charles Rulfs' article merely hit the tip of the iceberg on the Dick and Fitzgerald material. As I mentioned previously, the Dagger Sleight, which is on Pages 242 and 243 of the D&F version doesn't show up in the Cremer version at all. The H.L. Williams connection shows up quite often. It is based upon a reference in Books at Brown, concerning the H. Adrian Smith collection, in which Smith mentioned that Harris Dick, son of William Dick, who was the owner of Dick and Fitzgerald, had overheard his father saying that he had hired H.L. Williams, who was a hack writer, to do some work for him. Smith put 2 and 2 together and got 22. He assumed (without checking any of the dates, I suppose) that Williams had written the magic books. But he couldn't have. At the time these books were written, there was a quirk in US copyright law, and reciprocally in British law, that any book published in the English language that was not simultaneously published in the US was automatically in the public domain. So there was nothing illegal about Cremer appropriating these books. This law was done away with in recent years, but it caused real problems for English authors who did not know how to work with the law. Several well-known books, not just magic books, went into the public domain in the US because of this law. The fun part will be figuring out who actually had the first paddle trick.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
jocdoc Inner circle Carlsbad, CA 1183 Posts |
The book (The Secret Out) arrived in the mail today, Bill, and I found the Dagger sleight.
The copy came from the Muskogee Public Library and I purchased it from Akros Books (www.akrosbooks.com) via E-Bay. I've browsed through it - lots of material to check out (cards, cup & balls, etc) on a lazy afternoon... Thanks once again for the tip. jeff in san diego
Life is an improv. The game goes on...
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
You are welcome. BTW, The cups and balls section is basically the same as the cups and balls section from Guyot, except that it is in English.
If you will PM me your e-mail address, I'll send you a routine that uses the Dagger Sleight.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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