Hi guys, for some reason I couldn't log on over the past week but some interesting posts have come up since.

I have to say I really agree with Readytogo when he said that a lot of people when after coming out of hypnosis say I knew what I was doing but I went along with it anyway... Which brings me back to this complience and expectation point I made in my original post (which was not flawed mindpunisher)...

Also why is it when people come out of hypnosis and they are asked did you feel hypnotised, 90% of them will say no, although they cant remember what they did and yet still experience time distortion? Does this fit in with the Compliance/expectation theory?

Or is it that there is no "feeling" of being hypnotised, and the subject experiencing time distortion and "forgetting" what they did (which is usually a embedded suggestion by Mr Hypnotist?) is them complying and acting out what they think is expected of them?

Anthony was it to me you said
"That is a common reaction unless you dictate otherwise, does it unsettle you"

I didn't understand the question if so, could you please clarify

Hi,

yes I was saying the response post hypnosis that the person did not feel hypnotised and that it just felt right to do what was asked is a common one. Unless you dictate other wise - by that I mean unless you tell them how to feel about it all. I asked if such a response bothered you - by that I meant does it make you wonder if hypnosis is 'real' or just social compliance.

Hope that is clear.

Ant

So readytogo you think that hypnosis is just people going along with it? Does that mean you think it is just social compliance?

Ant

Anthony, I don't think that hypnosis is as black and white as just "social compliance." I mean obviously its something valuable and I do believe it can bring change in clinical therapy. One thing id like to add is that you so vaguely use the term "real." Unfortunately you are constantly playing devils advocate with me which gets the argument no where. We all know that there is no black and white answer for what hypnosis is. The most anyone has come up with is, Hypnosis is the bypass of the critical mind factor in order to establish acceptive and suggestible thinking. The fact that people HAVE to agree to be hypnotized shows that there is a social compliance is a factor no doubt. When you give me to choices, one being whether it is "real" and one being "social compliance" I have to go with social compliance because "real" doesn't make any sense. I'm just trying to say its not some magical spell, and I don't believe we will ever figure out what it really is. Now that I have expressed my views anthony it's time to just stop opposing what I say as well as asking more questions, and tell us what YOU think. I know that in the current late hours of the night my thoughts are extremely scattered so I appologize for any harsh comment or poor gramatical errors

I apologise if it came across that I was playing Devil's advocate. I was just trying to understand your point of view. You seem to be clear about what hypnosis is not but less clear about what you think it is. I appreciate hypnotists have debated that for hundreds of years and will continue to do so.

I know that subjects do NOT have to agree to be hypnotised because I have done hypnosis without permission and I have done that with people that did not know I was a hypnotist.

There does not seem to be any part of our neurology that correlates with Elman's bypass of the critical faculty definition. However it is still a useful definition to work with - as is Braids, as is Ericksons as is mine. Other models are just as useful of not more so. If you want to put it in a fresh and scientific context then I recommend Human Givens: A New Approach to Emotional Health and Clear Thinking. It is a mind blowing book with a credible and new approach to understanding this. It thoroughly squashes the social compliance model.

Best rgds,

Ant

"I have to say I really agree with Readytogo when he said that a lot of people when after coming out of hypnosis say I knew what I was doing but I went along with it anyway... Which brings me back to this complience and expectation point I made in my original post (which was not flawed mindpunisher)...

Also why is it when people come out of hypnosis and they are asked did you feel hypnotised, 90% of them will say no, although they cant remember what they did and yet still experience time distortion? Does this fit in with the Compliance/expectation theory?

Or is it that there is no "feeling" of being hypnotised, and the subject experiencing time distortion and "forgetting" what they did (which is usually a embedded suggestion by Mr Hypnotist?) is them complying and acting out what they think is expected of them?"

80% of the people Ive asked after being hypnotised said they couldn't remember anything the other 20% said they knew what they were doing but couldn't stop.

The post is flawed because it assumes there is a flaw where in fact none exists.

When I do one-to-one therapy 100% say they were hypnotised. Its not that difficult to create "trance ratification routines".

The only thing I see flawed about the original post is that the original poster has a flawed way of looking at things.

There are no flaws in hypnosis only working with what arises. Perhaps a better way of saying it is that the original poster isn't as good a hypnotist as he thinks perhaps its his infelixibility and range of skills that are "flawed".

Or perhaps mindpunisher your a full of yourself idiot? I never said I was a good hypnotist, I said I was STUDYING hypnosis and my post is merely my discoveries so far. It says a lot about you if you feel you have to invade someone else's post and be insulting, didn't you ever hear the phrase if you have nothing good to say, shut your stupid face?

And secondly the "flaw" that you seemed so concerned about is that NO HYPNOTIST THAT I HAVE EVER MET OR HEARD ABOUT HAS EVER THEMSELVES EXPERIENCED A POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE HULLUCINATION.... Does that not say something about hypnosis in general? Probably not to you because your to busy looking over your talents and feelings of superiority over the world.

Now I know someone will probably say "before I got into hypnosis I experienced it for myself" just to prove me wrong (mindpunisher would you like to insert another ignorant comment? I mean I may as well invite you besides you showing yourself up again...) but every hypnotist I've known has never themselves experienced it or heard of another hypnotist who has.

Anyway back to the guys who are actually contributing to the post with respect and decency, Anthony to answer your question... yes it does slightly because before I started studying hypnosis I too was taken in by the suggestion to the layman which is to believe it was some sort of power or magical script that would without doubt put people under (sounds silly to me now...), and these findings do challenge how or what I view hypnosis as.

However I am interested in getting that book you suggest or any book that challenges the Social Compliance theory. Also I've heard of people being put under by hypnotists without permission, or without them realising that the hypnotist was indeed... a hypnotist.

Can you tell us about when you did it, why you did it and without too much detail how you did it... Because doing it without them having the suggestion that you are a hypnotist would take away from the power of your own suggestions being given would it not?

'Can you tell us about when you did it, why you did it and without too much detail how you did it... Because doing it without them having the suggestion that you are a hypnotist would take away from the power of your own suggestions being given would it not'?

Here is an example.

I walked into a busy bar in London, straight up to the barman standing behind it, stuck out my hand as I asked his name and did a handshake induction. He remained standing but his spine crumpled so his head was on the bar. I told him I was the global superstar Denzel Washington and he would give me free drinks all night. I woke him up and asked him if I could come behind the bar to choose my drinks because that is how we do it in America. I got my drinks stood at the end of the bar and thanked him with a handshake and re-induced him and told him he would tell everyone he passed that he had just served Denzel. I then gave him an autograph, had a chat about his favorite Denzel movie and so on.

Hope that helps.

Ant

Anthony.... I'm not calling you a liar, and I want to thank you for putting in the constructive posts that you have been putting in but I just don't think that (a) any hypnotist would pull something like that for numerous reasons, too many to list in fact and (b) that it would have worked in a crowded bar were you made the subject (the barman) go against his own will at least three times....

I say the above with the utmost respect, its just that I've all to often come across a hypnotist who will try to test my own suggestibility (to see how gullible I was in order to see how much I know what I'm talking about) or that they are simply exaggerating their abilities. But if you say that it did happen I take your word for it and accept that I don't fully understand the reach of hypnotic power.

Finny,

Fortunately I am a hypnotist not a fantasist. Fortunately I have it on camera. The footage belongs to a TV company so I cannot youtube it. But one person here (Vince Lynch) has seen it.

All the best

Anthony

Finny I've experienced both positive and negative hallucinations so have you - it's an everyday occurance. I've experienced it also in hypnosis. The people who react are experiencing hallucinations even if not consciously they are unconsciously.

If you are only studying then how can you claim there is a "flaw" in hypnosis? Seems to me to be the only real ignorant remark in this thread.

You obvously don't understand my previous posts on this thread and show even more ignorance about the whole subject.

I find you amusing if not flawed.

Finny,
you said this
(a) any hypnotist would pull something like that for numerous reasons, too many to list in fact and (b) that it would have worked in a crowded bar were you made the subject (the barman) go against his own will at least three times....

Name some of the reasons a hypnotist would not want to get free drinks, putting moral and ethical questions aside?

With regard to your second comment I think there is something fundamental you can learn here. You suggest the barman did something against his will. I suggest to you that he everything he did was entirely in line with the belief that he was serving Denzel. When you change someones reality it is best to do it so that their will, for what it is worth, wants to go in the direction you want it to.

Another stunt I did based on a classic stage hypno routine was to get someone who ran a vegetable stall smoking one of their cucumbers. First as a cigar and then as a spliff. I then told them the drugs squad was about to raid the stall and that I was the only person who could dispose of the rest of the spliffs (cucumbers). I also told him that I would resist taking them but he would insist. He swiftly grabbed a bin liner and loaded a hundred or so cucumbers into it. I left with the bag of cucumbers.

Was giving way his stock against his will?

My view is that his will was totally in line with his belief. The version of reality I had created meant it made perfect sense to give me the cucumbers.

On my youtube channel there are a couple of other 'thefts'. The suggestion in these cases is simple. 'Your coat/necklace/hat belongs to me'. When they wake up and realise they are wearing my coat/necklace/hat, they give it back.

Ignore the will. Rather, ensure their belief directs the will. It is so much easier than going against someones will.

Anthony

Zero prefrontal lobe activity...

Subscription to american psychology journal may help.

Anthony... My full apologies, I didn't realise that it was for tv, I just thought you meant you walked into a bar and said what the hey... Also you make some excellant points regarding the will of the subject, and to be honest it something that I have not come across so far.

The only place I have come across something like it is in Derren Browns (tell me you know of this guy?) Tricks Of The Mind book (highly recommended if you're a fan, even if it is aimed at a layman audience) where he basically says when inducing the subject, use their will in order for them to want to deepen the trance, as in motivating them to find reasons for them to want to do it.

So I want to thank you for showing it to me in a different light Anthony and I apologise if what I said in the last post seemed like I didn't believe you but I refer to the top line of this post regarding that.

And Mindpunisher, I'm not going to get into a slagging match with you or anyone else here, my comments in the post you refer to were I felt, a justified response to your own post, however if you want to keep this going be my guest, I wont reply after this, but if you want to come in constructivly on this topic I'd be more than glad to hear your opinions.

Finny

I thought I had been constructive. If some one is reacting to suggestions saying they had to go along with them and act out some behaviour - then on some level they are imagining or hallucinating it happen. They just aren't conscious of it.

A bit like those that say they can't visualise then you ask them to close their eyes and tell you what colour of shirt you are wearing. They can tell you the colour even although they can't visualise? What they really mean is they don't have conscious accesss to that visualisation or memory.

I believe that hallucinations happen all the time. Have you ever been really angry with someone because you thought they had done something to harm you? Only to find out later you were mistaken? Yep that was a hallucination.

<quote>Anthony... My full apologies, I didn't realise that it was for tv, I just thought you meant you walked into a bar and said what the hey... Also you make some excellent points regarding the will of the subject, and to be honest it something that I have not come across so far. <quote>


= )

I think anyone can be hypnotised if they want to!

<quote> I think anyone can be hypnotised if they want to! </quote>

Shame no research has ever supported that view = )

Since hypnosis is a natural state (not an altered state) that one enters into easily and naturally each day, there is not need to research the fact that all people can be hypnotized. After all each of us every day moves from a state of high level alertness through deep sleep every 24 hours. Now it may be true that a specific individual doesn't trust ME or like ME guiding them through the process, and will not respond to ME, but that is far different than being unable to be hypnotized...