A question for the oldtimers, the sixtysomething C&B magicians : back in the 70's when tight clothing was in vogue, what was the most common method of loading (speaking here of the final loads)? I suspect it would have been difficult to load from trouser pockets. How did magicians adjust, and did it mean that the final loads tended to be smaller than they typically are today?

Clothing fashions are cyclical so it's only a matter of time before tight, form-fitting clothes come back into vogue again. This question should therefore be of interest to younger generations of magicians as well.

Fortasse

I have seen Michael Ammar dvds he is using tight clothing, he just used the back pockets.
MIKE ROGERS was using a shelve.

I belive this issue led TOMMY WONDER to create his wonderful routine.

Although not in my sixtysomethings, I had been involved in magic for many years during that time, so I can give an observation on this. Many of the Cups & Balls routines I saw performed at that time, as with a lot of other close-up magic, were done while seated. Lap loading was a part of many routines, including C&B. I did it myself for years.

Those who worked standing loaded either from servantes, or if they used body loads, from techniques associated with manipulators' body loads.

The change seemed to happen, or at least became more pronounced, when table "hopping" became the norm, as opposed to table magic. Close-up shows and contests at magic conventions began to gray the area between what was traditional close-up magic and parlor/stand-up magic.

Clothing styles in the 80's got baggier and pocket loads were a piece of cake, sometimes even from front pockets.

Jarle Leirpoll's great book, "Pocket Power", addressed issues that seemed to stem from tighter pockets, or at least those that seemed tighter once the hand was in there trying to cop a load.

I recall smaller loads, but probably because I recall smaller cups! Ha-ha!

If you have to dig around then make your misdirection stronger.

If you have to "dig" it's time to change the method.

When did digging ever look natural?

O.K. O.K. Paul Newman in Cool Hand Luke did a right fine job but he wasn't obtaining loads either.

From what I can see, standard-sized cups in the 70's were pretty much the same size as they are now. So I guess the size of the loads must essentially be the same as well (?).

Fortasse

If you can misdirect, they will not see the digging. Also dig smoothly and slowly. not frantically. I am assuming that each is using his best method. Of course if one has a better "method" by all means use it.

Today, there are many more styles of cups available, with a wider range of sizes. So-called "street" cups are more popular, thanks to magicians like Gazzo, whose popularity spawned a whole new crop of magicians wanting the same. While there were larger cups available in years past, they were decidedly more "inner circle". Certainly also, there are smaller cups available today.

In the 1970's Mendoza's Cups and Balls Routine was very popular. While not every magican did that routine, nor was it by far the only routine, it was probably better known than many other routines, besides Vernon's. (You did ask about the 1970's) The cups suggested by the Mendoza routine were Morrissey combo cups. These cups will just hold a racquetball. Large crocheted ball final loads were also sold with wider popularity. They were even smaller. Today, magicians go with tennis balls, baseballs, lemons, oranges, and other items that simply are larger.

I will admit that my opinion is based on my point of view, and not statistical data. I recall seeing cups and balls routines used in performances in convention shows, contests, etc. and I just don't remember seeing oranges, baseballs, etc. used as final loads. Today it is not unusual for a magician to own more than one set of cups, because the choices are more, and the availabilty is more instant, thanks to the internet. It is not unusual to think that this would include different size cups.

The earliest Morrissey combo sets would take a lacrosse ball.

I may have to go back to the database and make some changes there.

How early? I just measured a set of copper Morrissey minis that are just a hair under 2 1/2". These are at least as old as mid 70's. The Morrissey combo aluminum set that I bought before that for the Mendoza routine (long since gone) were no larger, because I used racquet balls with those. I crochet covered the racquet balls, but had to use a very thin colored string (like kite string), not yarn, as yarn would make the finished diameter too large to fit into the cup without jamming.

For years, I performed closeup table magic while seated. Lap loads, or loads from a special seat/prop case were what I used. When I started working behind a bar, I simply loaded from the shelf behind the bar. It was quite a long time before I ever put a load ball in my pocket. Even after then, I would often opt for a ball clip rather than fight tight pockets, or make my coat look like I bought it from Captain Kangaroo. LOL!

~michael

The C/B instructional DVD from Steven's shows Mr. Ammar wearing a wide collared shirt and tight bell-bottoms, which screamed "Seventies" (um, he also had the full head of longish hair of the era). I think maybe the fabric was also stretchy (lycra/spandex?). When he showed the loads it looked like his pocket would explode, but the loads stayed in place and he retrieved them without a problem.

You can still get mens stretch fabrics, in fact today skateboarders often get jeans made with varying degrees of stretchy fiber added:

http://www.nextag.com/mens-stretch-pants/search-html



Douglas M.

Think we could all take a lesson from Celeste Evans when it comes to hiding loads in tight clothing. That gal pulled dove after dove after dove out of that skimpy costume of hers. Just takes a bit of imagination and a little boldness, you'd be surprised where you could stash loads.

"Plums? Now when did I buy these plums?"

Morrissey started making combo sets in 1967 or 1968. The earliest sets they had for this had the small top and were 2.58" ID. That's big enough for a lacrosse ball. The next generation had a slightly larger top, but were 2.4" ID. These will not take a lacrosse ball.

Morrissey's cups developed strangely. Later ones are almost cylindrical. The tops are larger, but the ID's are just a smidge smaller. They changed the gaffing method about 8 years ago. Then they went back to the method that works.

Ok, thanks for that. Mine are obviously 2nd generation. Later they changed the stock thickness but retained the size and shape. Years ago, I ordered a 4th cup to match my copper minis, and while identical in appearance, the stock is noticably thinner.

photo

I recall the gaff change. It stood out like a sore thumb.

More like "fell out like a loose part."

You could do a rattle bar routine with them.

Joe H