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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
I especially liked its entertaining value and the fact that he was taking the C&Bs off the traditional "lecture type" of performance.
Mobius303: Joe is a very nice man and spontaneously enjoyed enhancing my routine with his reaction. Yes it was a fun moment, not for the reason you mention but because, even though we had not rehearsed, he very credibly "acted" his reaction on the spur of the moment: he is the one who got me with his lines rather than me fooling him (which he claimed parts of the routine did, but he might have been a gentleman on this as well). What a pleasant man and a true magic lover.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Laurence:
If you are referring to Joe Stevens, you are absolutely right. He does love magic. He has seen so much, but he is still like a kid when he sees something that is new or different. One of the funniest scenes he ever did was the one with Karrell Fox on the Himber Ring DVD. If you haven't seen it, you owe it to yourself. Besides, Karrell's idea is brilliant!
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Yes I was referring to Joe Stevens. As Bill and lots of people know, he is a very nice and real gentleman as well as a loyal friend, not a slimy merchant running after a fast buck.
Mobius303 was referring to the C&Bs routine I did for Magic for France in the Greater Magic Video Series (a phenomenal series: no fillers). The plot I had chosen was that I was trying to sell Joe Stevens, a magic dealer who has seen everything, a new specially gimmicked cup. As I could not unmount the complex mechanism in front of the camera I was showing the possibilities by showing magical effects between a crystal clear glass and the cup. (That was the plot) Joe got into the game in front of the cameras and between the two of us, he must have been the best actor since Mobius303 thought that I had convinced him live on set to buy the prototype. A pleasant and friendly improvised duo. May I take this opportunity to thank Joe again (without forgetting his daughter who was instrumental in the series) and send him my best.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Mobius303 Inner circle Lakewood, Ohio 1309 Posts |
LOL ....I enjoyed the routine.
I enjoyed the discussion about the books from your massive collection, as well. I have dealt with and bought from Joe for the better part of the last 20 years, and he is top notch. Mobius |
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carlosbosco New user 73 Posts |
Who knows, maybe he's a relative of mine? I'll do a little research to find out. I'm also related to Saint John Bosco (so my dad says) and (so my dad says) is the Catholic Patron Saint of Magicians. I guess the magic runs in the family...
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Cool! I got to visit his grave when I was in Dresden last year. The magic club there is doing a fine job maintaining it.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Clay Shevlin Elite user 497 Posts |
First off, I would like to compliment and thank Lawrence O and Bill Palmer especially for contributing to the creation of the best historical thread I’ve read on this forum. I’ve learned a great deal in this thread and sincerely hope that one of you has archived your collective research so that it is not lost at the flip of a switch. Many thanks, gentlemen!
I do not want to hijack this wonderful thread, and will therefore not go into too much detail or discussion, but since Bill has mentioned the issue of William Vincent’s authorship of Hocus Pocus Junior and indicated that he and I are at amiable variance on this issue, here are a few thoughts. To my knowledge, in his excellent and scholarly Magic on the Early English Stage, Philip Butterworth was the first to suggest in print that William Vincent – who performed under the name Hocus Pocus – authored Hocus Pocus Junior. Dr. Butterworth draws this conclusion from a passing reference in Randle Holme’s The Academy of Armory; Or, a Storehouse of Armory and Blazon (Chester, 1688). In a section titled “Leger De Main Implements” and in the context of providing his readers with descriptions of conjuring (“jugling”) apparatus, Holme concludes his prefatory remarks as follows: “Of which I shall give you an example of some, for the rest I referr you to Hocus Pocus Iunior, Printed by him in the yeare 1634.” Bill has correctly noted one of my cautionary queries when it comes to doubting Vincent’s authorship, namely the question of why Vincent would expose the workings of his bread and butter tricks – the very things by which he earned a living. But that point is, in my opinion, not the most compelling, and here I shall mention only two other counter arguments/points which cast doubt on Vincent as author. First, the author clearly states in his prefatory comments to readers that he was an amateur. This much we know: William Vincent was a professional magician. Why would Vincent put his professional name to a book, as proponents argue, and then claim to be an amateur magician? Second, Holme’s reference to the Hocus Pocus Junior author – if that in fact is what he is doing – is rather awkward (i.e., “printed by him”). But more important, if Holme is referring to the author, he clearly states that “Hocus Pocus Junior” is the author. Vincent’s stage name was not “Hocus Pocus Junior.” If anything, Holme’s comment bolsters the argument that the proper title of the book is The Anatomy of Legerdemain, and that the pseudonymous author’s name was “Hocus Pocus Junior”. In summary, the author states that he is an amateur magician and, according to Holme, wrote his book under the pseudonym “Hocus Pocus Junior.” It makes perfect sense that an amateur magician would append the word “Junior” to “Hocus Pocus” to create a pseudonym that would take full advantage of Vincent’s famous “Hocus Pocus” stage name. If Vincent was in fact the author, it makes no sense that he would tell his readers that he was an amateur and use his stage name incorrectly on the title page of his book. To be sure, more research needs to be done, but at this point, I do not believe that the arguments for William Vincent as author of Hocus Pocus Junior are very strong. |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Thanks for your contribution, Clay. It makes a lot of sense.
Now, I would like to question (not contradict) some of your arguments. First, taking the level of knowledge about magic at the time, Hocus Pocus Jr. is really thorough and doesn't look to me as an amateur's work. The lapping in the cups and balls, the practical advice to make a stack for the cylinder and coins..., all of this smells like performing experience. Now, your analysis on the word "Junior" in the title seems sound as long as you look at it from the writer's point of view. Now if you envision that it may concern the targeted readers (the juniors), your interpretation looses some of its pertinence. Now, I don't know the final word. I just like, as you know, to look at every point with pros and cons. Actually, in your post, I learned some things that I didn't know, and I'd like you to know that I'm grateful for your consistent analysis and, as usual, advanced research. It was good to hear from you.
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Clay makes some very valid points here about the William Vincent/Hocus Pocus Junior question. My own feeling about the title "Hocus Pocus Junior" is that it might mean "the offspring of Hocus Pocus," referring to the book as the child of "Hocus Pocus."
The actual cups and balls routine in HPJ needs to be studied with cups and balls in hand, and a decision made at some time as to how convincing certain parts, for example the opening sequence, actually would be. A second issue that bears consideration would be the number of people who actually could read. Some estimate that 80% of the male population of London was literate at the time this book was printed. How many copies of the book were printed? It took about a year and a half, possibly 2 years, for the first printing to sell out. The same is true of the second printing. Another question that bears consideration is the motive of the author. Until these questions are answered, then it will be difficult to determine who wrote the book.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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Lawrence O Inner circle French Riviera 6811 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-01-26 21:19, Bill Palmer wrote: To revert to the initial questions at the beginning of this thread, Bosco's routine is described in details by Robert Houdin and can be consulted in the recent edition (available to everyone for a couple of $) of "Comment on devient Sorcier" (Omnibus, 10 nov. 2010) p 648
Magic is the art of emotionally sharing live impossible situations
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