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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Real magic (39 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Darkness
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Yup!
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miistermagico
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Try reading "The Greeks and the Irrational" by ancient historian, E.R. Dodds.
miistermagico
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Since it is more likely primitive pre-stone age and stone age people believed in magic before the idea of the supernatural was contemplated it is possible the later day belief in the supernatural is actually rooted in a belief of magic.
miistermagico
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Some atheists are convinced the faithful's attempt to remove anxiety caused by the mysterious unknown brought about the creation of supernatural beings. Some contend primitive people had no understanding of the many natural events (thunder and lightning, for example) and needed someone's works as an "explanation". The ancient Jews in Biblical times believed earth quakes were caused by Yahweh's foot steps and disease by demons. The ancient Romans thought angry storms at sea were the wrath of Neptune and Jupiter granted them supremacy. Andrew Lang in ''The Making of Religion'' suggested "As soon as man had the idea of "making" things, he might conjecture as to a Maker of things which he himself had not made, and could not make. He would regard this unknown Maker as a "magnified non-natural man."
miistermagico
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You may be interested in The History of Magic and Experimental Science by Lynn Thorndike, a classic study. This is the history of how the belief in magic became science. This is not about entertainers.
Lucien Astor
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Shamans and temple priests used sleight-of-hand and the techniques of stage magic respectively. I don't think this was because they were charlatans, but rather to give the public an exterior experience that mirrored their internal esoteric experiences.
miistermagico
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As hundreds of decades past magic became science: alchemy became chemistry, astrology became astronomy, and numerology became mathematics.
Malakim
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Yes, that is the easy way to look at this. It does not really capture the whole thing, but if you wish to dismiss the topic this is the way to go.
Darkness
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Malakim you are right, it's easier to dismiss there is no real magick and run around and fix everything in life, than to consider, listen, study and observe. Some people are fighting if a 9th planet exist because people can't actually see it, even though scientifically it has gravitational pull etc.

Let's not compare beliefs that have been proven wrong in the past and just ignorantly dismiss everything that we don't have answers for today. Just throw all truth into the same science bucket why not (it's easy and lazy). And please don't consider anything that comes naturally from nature as a cure or medicine unless it is FDA board approved and made by science in a lab and sold in the pharmacy. The world is still flat to some people and that's the real magick don't spoil all the fun.
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friend2cptsolo
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Quote:
On Jan 25, 2016, miistermagico wrote:
Some atheists are convinced the faithful's attempt to remove anxiety caused by the mysterious unknown brought about the creation of supernatural beings. Some contend primitive people had no understanding of the many natural events (thunder and lightning, for example) and needed someone's works as an "explanation". The ancient Jews in Biblical times believed earth quakes were caused by Yahweh's foot steps and disease by demons. The ancient Romans thought angry storms at sea were the wrath of Neptune and Jupiter granted them supremacy. Andrew Lang in ''The Making of Religion'' suggested "As soon as man had the idea of "making" things, he might conjecture as to a Maker of things which he himself had not made, and could not make. He would regard this unknown Maker as a "magnified non-natural man."


Some Atheists do not spend their time thinking about what "the faithful" think about.
Steve_Mollett
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Quote:
On Jan 27, 2016, Darkness wrote:
Malakim you are right, it's easier to dismiss there is no real magick and run around and fix everything in life, than to consider, listen, study and observe. Some people are fighting if a 9th planet exist because people can't actually see it, even though scientifically it has gravitational pull etc.

Let's not compare beliefs that have been proven wrong in the past and just ignorantly dismiss everything that we don't have answers for today. Just throw all truth into the same science bucket why not (it's easy and lazy). And please don't consider anything that comes naturally from nature as a cure or medicine unless it is FDA board approved and made by science in a lab and sold in the pharmacy. The world is still flat to some people and that's the real magick don't spoil all the fun.

You sound frustrated.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
Darkness
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Don't confuse sarcasm for frustration. I'm a joker at heart. Lost in translation but the content is solid. Focus on the message not delivery. Was that harsh Smile
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miistermagico
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In the following order: Magic, Myth, Religion and Science have supplied us with desired explanations. If we are happy with something and we are confident it works for us we look no further. Thus we are limited by our curiosity and comfort. One's beliefs are determined by emotional factors. Truly reason and the formation of concepts are influenced by our contemporary environment, various wants and needs. Human beings are not totally rational.
Science does not operate in the realm of human purposes, meanings, and values. This is the realm of faith and religion. Science and religion are not alike. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe. John 20:29, Is certainly not the view of science. Science and religion have nothing to do with each other. Science avoids metaphysical explanations that cannot be tested.
Darkness
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Agreed..
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Steve_Mollett
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"Turtles! All turtles!"
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
miistermagico
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There is a book entitled Spirits, Stars, and Spells: The Profits and Perils of Magic is a 1966 history book by L. Sprague de Camp and Catherine Crook de Camp. The book constitutes a history of magic and occultism, a study of their practices.

Magic or sorcery is the use of rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language with the aim of exploiting supernatural forces. Belief in and practice of magic has been present since the earliest human cultures and continues to have an important spiritual, religious, and medicinal role in many cultures today.

An ancient Christian magical spell or charm from the sixth century has been found in an old papyrus manuscript housed at the John Rylands Library in Manchester, England. The discoverer, Dr. Roberta Mazza, believes the Greek charm, originally unearthed in Egypt, was part of an amulet to be worn or carried as protection. The newly discovered ancient Christian magical spell reveals Egyptian influence.

See:Ancient Christian Magic: Coptic Texts of Ritual Power,Edited by Marvin W. Meyer & Richard Smith
This thought-provoking collection of magical texts from ancient Egypt shows the exotic rituals, esoteric healing practices, and incantatory and supernatural dimensions that flowered in early Christianity. These remarkable Christian magical texts include curses, spells of protection from "headless powers" and evil spirits, spells invoking thunderous powers, descriptions of fire baptism, and even recipes from a magical "cookbook." Virtually all the texts are by Coptic Christians, and they date from about the 1st-12th centuries of the common era, with the majority from late antiquity. By placing these rarely seen texts in historical context and discussing their significance, the authors explore the place of healing, prayer, miracles, and magic in the early Christian experience, and expand our understanding of Christianity and Gnosticism as a vital folk religion.
Steve_Mollett
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Everything old is new again. 😉
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
The absurd is the essential concept and the first truth.
- Albert Camus
miistermagico
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I may not agree with all the information included here but I did find it of interest.
https://www.faust.com/legend/supernatural/
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