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cpinord New user 7 Posts |
Finny,
I read through all of the posts and they are giving you the real deal. Remember what a magician is. "A magician is an actor onstage portraying the part of a magician" You have mentioned several well known magi. Let me tell you by way of example, Lance Burton has had to work VERY hard to get where he is today. I remember when he was doing magic at the Body Shope in LA in between strippers. He was awesome then and is even more so now. He built up his network of magician friends, never stopped learning and always looks to improve himself. Pete Biro who responded to this post was 100% spot on in learning the classics. Don't just settle for learning how a trick works. Take time to learn why a trick works. Then make it fit your own style. Think about what is the most magicial presentation you could possibly do. Don't get tied up in all the mechanical explanations. Work on the overall effect. Often when I am asked what is my best trick, I reply with "The one that the audience says that thought they saw me do". I have heard my audience walk out of a show and describe tricks which I wish I could actually do. I am talking about the overall impression you leave with your audience. If you have the chance to do so, look up a french drop and then the Paul Lepaul french drop. One is a move. The other leans more toward a more natural, stylish move. Again the classic's contained in the Bobo book of coin magic. The Tarbell course is rock solid. If you are more visually inclined, check out the Mark Wilson course of magic, also the two volume set by Bill Tarr Now you see it, Now you don't. All visually rich but solid in content. Once you learn the classic's and know them dead on, you will be able to run over the other magi in your local magic club, specifically the one's who do not have such a rich grounding in the classic's. Best of luck
Charlie Cardeen
The Wizard of Ahhh's |
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DJBrenton Regular user Midlands, England 129 Posts |
Funnily enough I was only thinking about Marc Oberon the other day. Maybe 12 years ago I saw a UV stage show at a holiday camp and by coincidence came across the performer a few weeks later through a friend. It turned out to be Marc Oberon who lived in my home town. He was barely known there as he travelled the country all the time and wasn't part of the local magic community. We became friends, and he showed me many of his strongest effects. Guess what, they're the ones he still shows on his website now. Marc is a really fine magician, but boy has he worked at making what he does look good.
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wsduncan Inner circle Seattle, WA 3619 Posts |
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On 2008-03-21 17:27, Finny wrote: Well, assuming you’re not Marc Oberon posting under an alias so you can pump your resume… You seem to be suffering from a condition that affects many folks at a certain point in their magical development. You know too much to not notice things, and you let that knowledge weaken your appreciation of what you see. I can watch Lance Burton’s act and still see the magic even though I know it well enough to know every steal of every dove. But it still looks like magic because the act is perfect. Literally perfect. The answer to your question isn’t a new trick. The answer is to make a good trick you already know, perfect. As for the bottle production, the flash of fire is what makes it possible. You get blinded by the flash and when your eyes refocus the bottle is there. Not very “magical” if you think about it. Bob Read’s bottle production, or Eric Mead’s in Tangled Web, now those are magical. But if you want something “special” you have to invent it yourself. I’ll give you a hint: the really amazing, knock ‘em out effects are generally done by making them look left while you move right. It’s all about directing attention without them knowing that they looked away. To that end, study Slydini, Bob Read, Tommy Wonder… |
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John Bowlin Special user Maryland 827 Posts |
As far as the flashy bottle production you were speaking of, it really comes down to the simple old stuff again...just combined. Denny Haney just turned me on to what I think is the finest bottle production I have seen. The DVD is from an old school british magician named Bob Read that just passed a couple years ago. DVD is called Bob Read, The lost footage. Everything on the DVD is dated but it's pure gold!...just needs some updating on the patter. I'm sure a few here will know to whom I refer. He even burned me the second time on the dvd after I knew what to look for. The simplicity of it I am sure makes most people toss it aside. The genius of it is that it comes from a timed beat that you rarely hear new magicains speak of these days. There is a "time" to hit your audience with things like productions, it is inherent in many magicians and must take a lot of experience in the trenches for others. You can't buy it but you can buy the advice on how to acquire it.
Sooo many new magicians want this "take this in your face!" magic these days. But it isn't magic if all you do is make your audience think..gimmick?...special effect?...what happened while I was blinded by the flash?....etc. When you actually make people question their own perceptions and logic...you create magic. When you make them happy about having all that questioned..you have created entertainment! The reason I believe that more people don't do the bottle production I speak of is...it's too simple! No gaffs...no fancy expensive props...just really incredible timing and misdirection that he thoroughly teaches. Combine it with an el cheapo finger flasher and I think you'd have the effect you are looking for. I put months of time into perfecting this bottle production. It's all about the timing, misdirection and making it entertaining. I might have to try this with a "flash" presentation myself and see if it makes it more magical or not. Confuscious say..."He who wait on bridge of expectation soon drown in river of disappointment". Posted: Mar 22, 2008 3:20am Ha...funny that we were both going with thoughts of Bob Read in response to this thread...yet few new magicians seem to appreciate how great his bottle production was. I really need to get the Bob Read DVD set if it's anything like "The Lost Footage". I'm a not so young magician that is very green as far as experience and knowledge in the art. If it weren't for walking in Denny Haney's shop 3 years ago and buying every book he threw in my hands I'd still be asking everyone..."C'mon guys..what's new?!" As wsduncan alluded to, I still get chills of magic when I watch Roth do coins, Sanders do ropes, Denny Haney do card manip...etc. We know we should look down, yet we still look up. I feel that that magical timing and beat is really what seperates the real deal. All one has to do is look around youtube to see what most people are missing. |
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daffydoug Eternal Order Look mom! I've got 14077 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-20 19:55, Finny wrote: If I understand what you are conveying, you are saying that you want to recreate the WONDER, and you want your audiences to experience it. You want to become the CONSUMMATE magician! But are you ready to walk the path? Have you considered the cost? Are you willing to lay down your life to become that magician? Are you ready to fan the passion for your art that will burn out the dross and leave only the silver? If you are, then the answers will come. I am sorry to sound so spacey, but these principals are foundational. When the foundation is built, then you can build from there. Are you ready, should it be demanded of you, to go back to the beginning and rethink everything that you thought you knew about magic? The sources for the effects you desire are out there. Most of these sources will likely not be found very much in Today's magic DVds, but rather in the classics. (Michael Ammar and perhaps Michael Close may be the exceptions!) On second thought, I will correct myself: L& L Publishing, if you will check out their entire inventory, has a plethora of DVDs by some of the best mind's in magic! Check out what they offer by artists such as Tommy Wonder, Flip, Bill Malone and a host of others!. I would start from the very beginning with the Fitzgee Trilogy as my number one stop. These books will teach you what is vital and indispensable as an entertainer. When you have patiently absorbed what he teaches, I would move to classics such as Vernon's and Slydini's, and many others. I wouldn't ignore our friend Bill Tarr either! If you don't have a solid foundation in true sleight of hand, (not saying you don't) then you are cheating yourself and hobbling on one leg. This may sound odd, but I personaly would find some tapes of magicians such as Mark Wilson, Doug Henning, and others who you would consider REAL magicians, and I would watch them with the intent of learning the secrets of how they created WONDER with WHATEVER effects they performed! I would then focus on learning how to DREAM up your own magical effects, and finding ways to bring them to fruition. It is gonna' be work, but you're not afraid of that. As far as finding actual books that have the effects you asked about, they are certainly out there. Hank Lee has a HUGE selection of books, at least he did the last I knew, unless he has changed. When I was new in magic, Lou Tannen's had a comprehensive selection of books available on every facet of magic, and that may still be so..you'll have to check. Magic auctions and Flea markets are replete with dusty, musty old magic books with every classic secret imaginable. Ever been to Abbotts in Colon Michigan? When you walk in the door, right there behind the main showcase are tons of books on every aspect of the magic art. You name it, it's there. And every spring they have their annual magic flea market, followed by their auction, and it's normal to find huge BOXES stuffed with classic books on the art of magic, that you can riffle through, browse, and buy what you want till your heart's content... I would check out old issues of Genii magazine. They are a goldmine of beautiful, classic magic effects, waiting to be mined, and most important, they are currently ignored, and NOBODY is performing them anymore! That is your cue! I even have before me as I type an issue in which the classic magic of Magic Christian is featured. It shows how to put together the props and how to perform them. This is the "good stuff"! I guarantee you nobody is doing these fabulous effects nowadays in our day of "instant magic", and they are as close to real magic as you will ever come! Posted: Mar 22, 2008 11:56pm One guy I forgot to mention..some of the best, killer closeup effects and instructions that can be found come from a guy named Jeff Buzzbee. Last I knew he was ding business as Buzzbee/ Corin. It will be well worth your time if you can successfully look him up. I don't know what he's currently doing as far as marketing, but if you can get a hold of anything he has put out, you will be very happy you did. Also check out any effects you can find by a guy named Danny Korem. The man is a magic genius, and I believe Jeff marketed some of his effects, if memory serves me. Hope I have given you some great leads!
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
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Tina I Regular user Oslo/ Norway 194 Posts |
I remember many years ago. I would see some great magician do something on TV then run to the (not so) local dealer and buy the effect. Excited I unpacked it and thought: "What the heck? Is that all??". Then I'll try it out and throw it in my maybe-in-the-future box. The reason? It seemed so simple.. so outright dumb that I just refused to do it and I felt like a fool for thinking it was so great when I saw it performed by a pro.
Fast forward a few years: I see Lance Burton produce a candle. So elegant, so confident, so - Lance Burton. I happened to have such a candle so I tried to copy him. No chance! It looks like I pull a fake candle from a silk no matter what I do. So at one point I stopped buying tricks and started studying magic. And I let my self enjoy other magicians work without feeling envious because I know the secret: It's easy and dumb but the artist provides the magic. And I would say that 99% of the magic I enjoy the most is usually card tricks, thumb tip, flash paper, the odd prop and maybe some IT work. (Let me add that I'm usually bored stiff by grand illusions so I don't see much of that). And when I get spontaneous applause in the middle of my billiard ball routine I know that I've done something magical since the secret to that trick is so simple and so outright dumb. Maybe being an amateur is a blessing since I don't have to do a show every evening so I don't grow tired of what I do. But even though I do almost exclusively classics it seem that my audience isn't tired of it either... |
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puggo Inner circle 2022 Posts |
Some very interesting wisdom here. I have recently read Tommy Wonder, and more recently Jeff Hobson. Hobson (Jeff Hobson - business of magic & lecture notes)suggests that we do not look for new effects, but look at the old classics , and make them fit you (and be entertaining!).
I have far less performing experience than many here, but digging out an old classic, and giving it a new presentation has really provided me with satisfaction, and pleased the customers. I have recently used the Eugene Burger 'mystery bag' plot (flat, folded paper bag with rubber bands around it, guess what it is, glass of drink produced), and changed the patter and production item, and it has gone down a storm with both adults and kids. What's more, it's been fun to do! |
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TheAmbitiousCard Eternal Order Northern California 13425 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-20 16:33, C.W.G. wrote: Repetitive? Gee Big Surprise. But good for you for noticing. Ignore all the hyped magic. Look to the classics. They are classics for a reason. Simple ideas that you can wrap your personality around. That's the key. But they take more work. Looks like you're up to the task. Your answers will come from within. get your notebook, read books, take notes, read books NOT on magic but on comedy, etc. (such as steve martin's new wonderful book), buy comedy CDs, research jokes online, lines, gags, props, gag props, etc. and don't hesitate to be off-the-wall with anything for a while. one trick at a time and take your time. stop buying all the hyped stuff. it keeps you doing the same thing everybody else is doing. and you can keep your thoughts together with what I use if you like. Google the term "freemind". Mind mapping software. Free.
www.theambitiouscard.com Hand Crafted Magic
Trophy Husband, Father of the Year Candidate, Chippendale's Dancer applicant, Unofficial World Record Holder. |
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Danny Hustle Inner circle Boston, MA USA 2393 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-03-21 17:27, C.W.G. wrote: Many professional entertainers, particularly comedy/magic entertainers choose classics because it is magic that nails you right between the eyes and leaves A TON of room to insert your own personality. Most of the crap you are talking about (and I call it crap in a general sense and not because it is actual crap) fireballs and floating widgets are a lousy choice for most full time working professionals, The reason is they can not play all venues, are not sure fire, and for a guy who has an act, a character, and a personality, they possess no 'wow' factor. I work a lot, I do not want to staple a thread to my knoggin' so I can float a little ball when I can all ready reduce an audience to tears of hysterics and flat out floor them with a cheap plastic egg and a little red bag. To be honest with you to do the egg bag well in a close up situation takes much more skill, talent, and dexterity than floating a mini disco ball. If you perform it well it lays twice the punch into the audience because in the end THEY do the magic. Magicians get bored with classics, most audiences have never seen an egg bag,a card stab, or a long card. I can do a lot of complicated slight of hand and feats of daring dexterity. Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. if you don't like the stuff you are doing and want to go down another path that is cool. You SHOULD explore everything you can about this weirdness we call an art form. BUT if you are working as a PROFESSIONAL ENTERTAINER it is about your audience and not about you. That being said, magic contests are a GREAT way to exorcise that flashy, fleshy, finger flicking, demon that lives inside of you. That way, you can still do the sponge bunnies for the paying customers, because most of them think a ball of fire is cool for about 1/10th of a second. Finally, if these things are so well within our technical grasp as performers why are they done so poorly by most magicians? I think the problem with a lot of people who are interested in magic is that they NEVER devote the time to the classics to learn the proper foundations of magic and entertainment before they leap on the floating ball and flash paper band wagon. I see that stuff done to death all the time by the rank and file. I personally think it is something most people with actual talent avoid and not aspire to... That's my 2p. Best, Dan- "MT is one of the reasons we started this board! I’m so sick of posts being deleted without any reason given, and by unknown people at that." - Steve Brooks Sep 7, 2001 8:38pm ©1999-2014 Daniel Denney all rights reserved. |
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Christopher Lyle Inner circle Dallas, Texas 5698 Posts |
Darn your Danny Hustle for taking the words out of my mouth!
In Mystery,
Christopher Lyle Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius For a Good Time...CLICK HERE! |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Be yourself and perform what you are comfortable with. Do not try and copy anyone else.
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magicsoup Elite user 461 Posts |
I have to echo Danny. It sounds like the things that inspired you are for a stage show where you have absolute control over everything. Many of the classics are classic because they work in the real world. They pass the angle test, the fire alarm test, lighting test, etc., ..you get the picture. Personally, I don't want to go through all the work to learn something that I can't perform in a lot of places.
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
OK, here's what you really need. Flash papaer. Lots and lots of flash paper. Also, flash cotton, flash string, and some glitter thrown in for good measure. Also, be sure to ignite it very close to your spectators. They'll be sure to remember you. Doesn't that sound ridiculous?
I really didn't get what you were trying to say in your posts. I perform very consistantly for audiences of all ages and backgrounds. My repertoire really does not change based on my audience, but my presentation does. Saturday night, I was hired at the last minute for a Christmas party in a mansion. I was hired to do some strolling magic for about an hour and a half, and then a half hour formal close-up show. My props used were cards, some silver dollars, a marker a borrowed ring and a piece of velvet string. I decided to keep it super simple as it was a drinking crowd, ordinarily I would have done the cups but they couldn't have handled it. When I sat at the dining room table and had 15 executives and their spouses sitting and standing around me, I used one deck of cards and a marker and held them in the palm of my hand. They hung on every word I said, and begged for more. In my closer, I get VERBAL confirmation that if I do what I say I'm going to do is nothing short of a miracle, and then, I do just that. I produce a card that has just thought of by a lady in the audience, after holding a deck for 3 seconds, which the specators have shuffled and cut all during the trick. This earned me a thunderous round of applause, a booking for a gig in Feb. and a $100 tip. The only thing it didn't get me was a hot girl's phone number. (Probably because the only single one there was the homeowner's 14 year old daughter.) By the way, the trick is published in Greater Magic. Ever heard of it? It's buried, and I like to keep it that way. My point in this story is not to toot my own horn, (but hey, what the hell, toot freakin' toot) but to say you don't need fire, and big fancy props, and the latest $500 gizmo on the market. All it takes to be a successful entertainer is some charisma, desire to do a great job, and the willingness to put forth some effort. So, I actually LOVE the magician I've become and wouldn't change a thing. |
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Pete Biro 1933 - 2018 18558 Posts |
Chanage a thing? Not even your bowling shirt?
Posted: Dec 22, 2008 2:25am I really liked the magician I was.... (retired now, darnit).... I toured the USA, Europe and Japan with my own Linking Ring routine, a Malini Egg Bag, a piece of rope, my modified original Chinese Sticks and my own way to do the Card in Balloon.
STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
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pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts |
Actually, there is one thing I'd like to change. I just can't make up my mind whether I want to be Pete Biro, or Kozak when I grow up.
Pete, bad news on the bowling shirt, I'll PM ya. |
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gfdiamond Regular user sweden 198 Posts |
Hi guys,
I agree with pete biro 100% the tricks should be an extension of your personality. there are plenty of fantastically gifted technical magicians who cannot work professionally, as they have no personality. at a restaurant I worked in holland, there are was a local guy who wanted to fill in while I was away. the boss was really impressed with his tricks, however he came across as an accountant! therefore, he wasnt asked to come back. just look at some of the greatest musicians of all time....they do the most simple things, but their presence is what makes them great - not really what they play. good luck and make sure you are a warm, engaging peformer who does impressive tricks. not the other way around. regards, geoff.
Check me out on Google. Geoff Diamond Magician.
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