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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Danny,
I respect your knowledge and opinions, but could you explain that last comment in light of the following hypothetical situation? Client A hires me to do a 45-minute show with 5 stage illusions, assistant, costume changes, etc. I charge them $3000. Client B, booked through an agent, hires me to do a show in which I normally get paid $1,000. It is my 45-minute stand-up comedy and magic show. The typical pack flat, play big stuff. The agent charges the client $3000. I am wrong for not giving Client B my full show with the stage illusions, etc.? Also, It is possible that Client A and Client B may meet in the future, find out they’ve hired the same magician for their event and start to talk about the details. How do you handle this?
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
Thank-you Ken for your response to Danny. Those were to be my comments also.
When you perform the "big" stuff there is indeed a difference between my $1000.00 show and my $5000.00 show. And the difference is in writing. ie. number of illusions, anything special ie. production of the preseident etc., sound, lights etc. The client may not necessarily want to know, but the event planner or agent certainly does want to know the content! Blair
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
P.S. I also feel bad when I know the agent has inflated the price beyond reason (2-3 times) as the end user may be comparing your act to another they may have had quote direct that was just a few more $$$ but with greater content.
Hopefully your uniqueness, and quality will make the customer forget the other packages they had quoted. Blair
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Blair,
That is one problem I have always had with agents. I do not mind them making what they can from me as long as I get the price I ask for. I also like to think they trust me and I them in the relationship enough that I can honestly know around what they are getting and what they are charging the client. The reason is quite simple. I may be going in with my 1k show when in he client's mind they think they are getting my 3k show because that is what they are really paying. I think some agencies you can build a good relationship with based on trust and when you do, this is not so much of an issue. I always bring it up because I believe in being honest with whoever I am working with. They are representing me just as much as I am representing hem. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Here is my point.
If you feel you could have done "better for the client" as if you are basing how well you choose to do on how much you are paid, that is wrong. The fact that you can have 2 different shows for 2 different price points, no problem. It makes you more marketable, and makes you more versitile, and probably means you work more. Let me tell you one thing. Half the time the AGENT THEMSELVS are not sure what the client wants. So by the time the info gets to you, it may not be the agents fault that you are not quite as informed as you may like. (I make no pretence about what anyone else does as far as money, you don't like the money simply don't work with that agent no biggie) Many times they get the call and the party has one idea, and 2 weeks later it has changed some, and they never get the call back to tell them the difference. Whose fault is that? It happens ALL THE TIME. There are lots of reasons you may not get all the information, but it does not mean some nefarious plot to make your show tough. It may just be that things happen. Show up, do the job well, make the show memorable, and you may have an agent for life. Agents seem like laywers or cops to me. Everyone wants to complain about them, till they find themselvs in need of one.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Nice thoughts Danny (as usual). I agree. No matter what show I am doing or how much I am getting paid, I am always a professional. That means I give 100% effort regardless. As a professional it means me being one at all times not when I choose to be one. You can have different shows buit each show you do you need to do it as well as you can do it. One show should not be any less professional then the other.
I also know that the agent does the best they can with the information provided to them. I work with many different agents and agencies over the years and this is just the case. It does not always mean they are out to get me. With this understanding, I try and communicate well with the agent and get as much information as I can and as they know. However, it also means I need to be a bit proactive myself to simply ask for the information and to follow up with the agent from time to time. I should not always be solely dependent on them calling or emailing me wverything I need. I need to take the initiative to ask if there is info. that I may need to be able to do the best job I can. I also know that as long as I develop a good working relationship with any agent, I feel good about that. It is a mutual feeling of trust between them and i. It just means we both understand to do as well as we can do and to communicate with each other. I know that the egant may not always have everything I want or feel I need but I also need to understand and feel they are doing the best they can for me. Just my thoughts. Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Another problem when offering two shows at two different price points, the agent will look at which show he can sell and profit from the most. Usually this ends up being your lower show. i.e. if your show is $1000 and the other $3000. In the agent's mind if he wants to make a fee or markup of $1000, this almost eliminates your higher price show from being pushed by the agent. He could much easier sell the lower show for $2000 than the higher show for $4000. He makes $1000 either way.
These are just round number examples to demonstrate a point. It may not seem fair or right, but it is the reality of how many agents approach a client and booking situation. They also consider which acts allow them for the greatest earning/profit margins or potential. While we tend to look at this from the performing perspective, they often operate from a business (profit, markup, resale) perspective. |
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MAGICofSeth Regular user 106 Posts |
Hello Danny,
I can clearly see the points you have outlined above. It is not my intention to bash agents or to say that they are all bad. Please do not be defensive about my next comment: I was saying that I had also had a similar, and bad, experience with an agent. I have also had bad experiences with auto repair technicians (mechanics)- but I think that there must be many of them who are knowledgeable, competent, and honest as well. I continue to take my vehicles to them. As far as feeling as though I could have done better for the client- It is absolutely not that I only give minimal effort to a client who pays less. That is ridiculous. Of course I give 100% to every show, and seriously strive to be the best entertainer they have ever had- regardless of what they pay. As an entertainer, that is my responsibility and my love. HOWEVER- what I bring with me to make that happen does change based on what the client can afford. Let's take one large illusion that requires an assistant for example- a sub-trunk, or shadowbox, or levitation, or whatever... For a $750 show I can not do any of those because It would not cover my costs. But, I CAN do Bill in Lemon, Jumbo Card on Seat, Mentalism, Pavel's Walking Knot, Straight Jacket Escape, Dart Catch, Card Sword, Saw an Audience Member in Half, Torn and Restored Newspaper, Rope Escape (audience tied up), 100' Rope Escape (I'm tied up), Hospitality, Ring in Light bulb, Snow, etc. etc. It can still be great show. Perhaps even the BEST show they've ever seen. But not the same show as if they had a larger budget. I even bring a backdrop, PA, and two Lighting Trees with 4 ParCans each to these style of shows (usually corporate). With a larger budget comes larger illusions, intelligent lighting, assistants, and an overall "grander" experience. I am only saying that when I am deceived by an agent, I would like to have done some larger illusions for the client, since they paid for them. Not necessarily a Better Show, but a different and Larger Show. I hope that explains my comment. I just deleted the rest of my post as it seems ludicrous to go into a personal defense when the point is clear and has already been supported by others here. Anyways- I am not trying to stir up anything. Just explain that even though I bring vastly different shows for different budgets- it is what I HAVE TO DO to survive. If I only played $3000 and up gigs, I'd starve. I take what I can get, and bring what fits the price. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Why not get a bunch of agents here talking about acts who lie about qualifications, who claim TV credits and don't have them, have crappy shows and good promo, who show up late, who show up drunk or never show up at all due to drugs.
Or the plethera of magicians doing the EXACT SAME THING. Does this mean all magicians and performers are bad? You tell me. Or is it a case by case basis? Well if you deserve that consideration, does not the agent you are working with? TILL YOU ARE PROVEN WRONG BY THEM, then it is an obvious answer.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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MAGICofSeth Regular user 106 Posts |
Makes Sense. I recently referred a client to another magician- who was happy to take the gig and the client's deposit, but then never showed!
There are bad apples in every bunch. I guess you just have to check each one out before you bite... |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
As said above the other point is that if you have 2 shows, the one which will be sold most is the one which will make the agency most money. This is not a bad thing as you want to always sell your highest dollar show as well.
It is a business after all. Agents who decieve acts, are an aboration and should be avoided. Acts who do what I outlined above, and aparantly do to you what they did, are in the same catagory. I just hate when I see all the "agent bashing" as it serves no usefull function and is not really always their fault.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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magic4u02 Eternal Order Philadelphia, PA 15110 Posts |
Danny: AMEN brother. You stated it exactly as I was thinking myself. Thank you. Like anything magicians are not always professionals in their doings and sometimes neither are agents. But because you had a bad experience with one agent does not mean they are all like that. he best thing you can do is try them out and ask a lot of questions up front. They represent you as much as you represent them so their is no reason why you shouldn't ask the questions and feel comfortable with each other.
Kyle
Kyle Peron
http://www.kylekellymagic.com Entertainers Product Site http://kpmagicproducts.com Join Our Facebook Fan Page at http://facebook.com/perondesign |
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jackofallmagic New user 10 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-26 14:31, Mindpro wrote: In my discoveries I have found that the agent I work through likes that I am able to offer different styles of magic - close up magic - stand up/stage magic- and illusions. They love the different packages to present to their client. The agent likes the fact they can sell me at xxx or xxxx or xxxxx and to fit their clients needs and BUDGET! I know some agents sometimes will not make that much but will comply with the clients budget in order to get the gig for the entertainer and to pay towards what a typical agency over head of about $15,000 to $20,000 a month in expenses... Of course if it is a smaller company they don't have as much of over head.... |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-05-23 11:40, impossible man wrote: Yes, because agents want to know how your act is. The agents want repeat calls from their clients. So they must see you are profesional. Do not have the promo DVD over 7 minutes in length because they receive a ton of DVD promos. They do not have time watch all of them. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I believe that is really matter of preference. Several of my agents or agencies have required both a demo of 6-8 minutes or so AND a full length unedited performance. This allows them to see and become very familiar with the entire program or performance in great detail. Then the abbrieviated demo is to use for marketing and promotional purposes.
Several different types of agencies have requested materials in this format including comedy agents, school agents, and crusie line agents. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
The 5 minute video is going the way of the T-Rex in all honesty.
As I said on another thread you can put BOTH a small clip and a full length show on one DVD and most agencies I know of are going this route.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Blair Marshall Inner circle Montreal, Canada 3660 Posts |
LOL
B
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
In either of the first two cases, yep the answer is the same.
See the problem is that the technology is SO easy to use, so inexpensive, and so readily available, there is not really a good reason not to do it. It may not even be about what the particular booker is looking for. It may simply be that the competition is doing it, and you may not get a second look without it. It may simply be that to get "noticed" you may have to do such a thing. I do think it is best to give yourself every advantage though. (I am not saying it IS that way, please notice the use of the qualifies such as "may".)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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