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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Language is not reality.
Reality is the truth.. It follows: No one ever tells the truth if that is true……. Don‘t it ? Are the premises true? Is that conclusion logical? Since we have experts in logic here can one of you kind gents explain that to me? I have been thinking on it since I heard a fella say “Language is not reality!”
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts |
Language is a tool with which we
Build our model of reality - which is a story BTW Communicate our stories to others Explore how sounds and symbols affect our perceptions and realities.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts |
Tick tock, whiz, whir, bang, zoom, whoosh, BOOM, crash, clatter, crunch, clunk, wah wah wah, fizzle.
That's real because I say it is.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
LobowolfXXX Inner circle La Famiglia 1196 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-28 10:28, tommy wrote: This reminds me a bit of a Nietzsche idea that all language is lies. The gist of it is, to make sense of the world, we categorize, but in categorizing, we oversimplify. It's a necessary evil, because there are just too many things/concepts/etc. out there, and we can't deal with each of them as a particularized experience. So we say that this is a tree, and that over there is also a tree, and now we have an idea of what a "tree" is. But in calling them both "tree" we suggest that they're the same, and in many ways, they're different. Over the top, certainly, but I think there's still some truth to it and a point to be appreciated.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley. "...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us." |
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts |
Truth is an idea - not a sensation.
sensation and its recall are experience. language is a method to encode a reflection of experience. as Lobo pointed out, the smart folks already explored how we encode by generalizing somethings, deleting some things and distorting some things. Have you found and read that Greg Egan story "TAP" yet?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-06-28 11:50, Patrick Differ wrote: Patrick, your reality is an episode of West-era Batman?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
It a catastrophic thing happened that wiped out all mankind then what would be the truth?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
Patrick Differ Inner circle 1540 Posts |
The only good language is a dead language.
My reality is onomatopoeia.
Will you walk into my parlour? said the Spider to the Fly,
Tis the prettiest little parlour that ever you did spy; The way into my parlour is up a winding stair, And I've a many curious things to show when you are there. Oh no, no, said the little Fly, to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair -can ne'er come down again. |
tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
Real things make us think I think and what we think we say but what we think is not real nor what we say, its just a reflection of reality and the truth.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
ThomasJ Special user Chicago 1000 Posts |
Is language that is not verbalized (body language) reality?
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts |
Stepping on an ant is pretty darn real to the ant.
The Satir categories of posture/behavior seem to work nicely so I'd vote "yes" on that notion of "body language" as language.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16543 Posts |
I’m not the gods. I just tell them what to do.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
airship Inner circle In my day, I have driven 1594 Posts |
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
Check out Wikipedia's entry on Linguistic Determinism.
'The central secret of conjuring is a manipulation of interest.' - Henry Hay
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dancingm0nk3y New user 88 Posts |
Maybe language creates reality.
By calling funny colored bits of paper "legal tender" we magically create value. By labeling a group of people "the enemy" we create hatred. Also, language is the repository for all knowledge up to this point. It is what allows us to "stand on the shoulders of giants".
-- Clay
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
I don't have much to add, really. But it might interest some of you that when I wear my philosopher's hat I NEVER even use the word "reality". What is it supposed to mean? Everything we can possibly think of is "real" in a certain sense, because thoughts themselves are real.
Now, when I wear my cowboy hat and I'm playing music in a bar or I'm playing around with playing cards, I talk about "reality" all the time. But I don't mean anything by it. (If I do, I just mean something like "real-life" as opposed to comic books or Hollywood movies.) I know this isn't furthering the discussion any, but there you have it. Jeff |
Whit Haydn V.I.P. 5449 Posts |
Everything in the world that we name and know and understand is part of a shared socially "constructed" reality of language and symbols.
The Reality that exists with or without us is unknown and largely unknowable--it is that which exists and is not yet named or brought into consciousness. We apply different instruments and methodologies to try to extend the success of our dealings with our bodies and our worlds through manipulating things according to the map that we have constructed over centuries with the help of the others, and that we continually re-construct, amend, study and learn. Magicians are sort of error-checkers for the map-makers and students. |
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