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magico563 Veteran user UK, sheffield. 381 Posts |
Guys I am posting this on the 'tricky business' forum because I am wondering weather this is good OR bad for my magic business and weather I need to change my ways.
Well the thing is that I have my routines which I perform in a working environment and they are all solid routines which is all well and good. But one of my routines I find gets the greater reactions and which most people like the most. So I find my self performing that particular routine A LOT more than any other routine. YES I do perform my other routines maybe once or twice but this one routine which is the AC/card wallet then deck to Omni deck is the routine I perform A LOT MORE then any other routine at a gig. So my question is..... Is this bad for my business that I am performing a routines a lot more than other routines I have. Yes I don’t perform the same routine to the table bang next to one that has just seen it but I mean in terms of the gig its self as a hole and I some times feel guilty of sometimes not performing one of my routines more because I feel I have not shown people my vast variety. I hope people understand what I am trying to say and I would love your view on this guys and what you think I should do. Thanks, Tom. |
gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
Wasn't it David Devant who said he only knew 8 tricks.
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Chad C. Inner circle 1522 Posts |
Give the customer what they want. The variety part is what you would like to show them, but not necessarily what they would like to see - take it as a compliment that people love your AC routine so much and give'em what they want!
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NJJ Inner circle 6437 Posts |
Make sure you always have a few extra routines for repeat audiences but, if the people love the AC routine then stick with it!
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avimagic Loyal user Hollywood, Florida 235 Posts |
I believe it was in Seth Kramer's book on trade show magic that I read something that was so simple, yet so ingenius, it pretty much blew my mind.
It said that the difference between a professional magician and an amateur magician is that an amateur magician performs new tricks for the same people, but a professional magician performs the same tricks for new people. If you can keep performing the same tricks without running out of new people, congratulations! You're a pro! |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Anyone who only knows 8 tricks today, will soon be out of work. The days of nightclubs and 10 minute acts is long dead.
In the trenches, the working pro will tell you that you want to build a solid list of regular clients. They might be schools, clubs, resorts etc... For this, you need to be constantly updating your reportoire. Similarily, if you are doing table hopping in a restaurant, then you need to update once or twice a year. The customers of that establishment will soon grow tired of seeing you do the same tricks. Few of us will have a new audience for every performance. I think whoever wrote that is either extremely lucky or extremely out of touch. If you insist on performing the same routine over and over again for years, then the only person you are fooling is yourself. |
avimagic Loyal user Hollywood, Florida 235 Posts |
RJE, as you might have noticed in my intro, I read the quote in a book on trade show magic. At trade shows, you perform NOTHING but 10-minute acts. You perform those 10-minute acts 2-3 times per hour, for up to 8 hours a day, for 3-5 days at a shot, and seldom see the same audience members more than once. This may also be repeated for the same client at multiple tradeshows during the course of the year.
And while I do agree with a lot of what you say, I disagree with the notion that this is a black and white issue, "agree with me or starve." There are still nightclub opportunities. There are still cruise ships, which require very little in the way of variation. There are tourist attractions, and other venues that see a steady turnover of audiences. And there are new niches you and I haven't even thought of. The one who will think of them (and succeed with them) are the ones who get sick of hearing things like "it can't be done" and "the only person you are fooling is yourself." Yes, for most of us, we need to update. We will see repeat audiences and they will quickly tire of the same tricks again and again. Personally, I have found a market that enables me to perform the same routines over and over and over again without needing much in the way of updating. It has me traveling a bit, but it's working for me well enough that I am well on my way to being in the category you label as "either extremely lucky or extremely out of touch." I wish Tom all the success he hopes for to accomplish the same. |
Fitz Elite user Phoenix, AZ 476 Posts |
RJE
I have a friend who is a "top professional" and last I heard he only does 12 minutes. He travels the world and is very respected among the magic crowd. I have also been told you only need three original minutes and a 50 minute gala show. The 3 minutes will get you air time and that will allow you to book your gala show. Fitz
I have a daily web show all about magic at http://FitzMagic.info
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Michael Messing Inner circle Knoxville, TN 1817 Posts |
This argument you guys are having is about what a performer's goals are. If you are willing to travel regularly, yes you can have one 10 - 12 minute act and perform it for new audiences all the time. On the other hand, if you are not inclined to traveling regularly, then you will have to be able to change your material unless you live in a very large metropolitan area.
This question comes down to your market and how often your audiences change. I perform in a relatively small metropolitan market and I haven't traveled much in years. Most of my audiences have seen me before and some have seen me multiple times in the last year, so I have created multiple shows. If I were still doing one nighters regularly, I would have little need for multiple shows. Michael |
Doruk Ãœlgen Elite user 466 Posts |
If you are uncomfortable with the situation you are in,then you should try to make your other routines better,but no mattar what you do,there will always be the things you do best:)
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
The convention magician might get away with the same act over and over again for a while. The magicians want to see the award winning act. They might even get to take it on the road or cruise ship, for a while.
Similarly, those performers that are famous in the magic world for a particular act can ride it for years. I love Thomsoni's dove act and Kole and Co. and can watch them over and over. And, there can be a few other exceptions as well. But, the vast and overwhelming numbers of working magicians change their acts to keep working. A trade show magician (I worked trade shows) still has to update his/her act. A travelling pro still has to update their act (I travel to perform). A local performer has to change their stuff. And on and on. As to the advice that says you only need 3 original minutes and a 50 minute gala show, that sounds like one of the quickest routes to bankruptcy I've ever heard. How many people, real and otherwise, on the Café perform a regular "gala" show (not just filling 50 minutes with tricks) to make their living? Out of all the magicians in the world, how many, compared to all those that make a dollar/pound/yen or whatever at performing either full or part time, do nothing but a 50 minute "gala" show to make their money? How do you keep selling your good clients the same show each year? Three minutes of original material to get you air time? Why not speak to the hundreds, possibly thousands of magicians in North America alone who thought that they could rent a theatre, advertise a show, maybe get some free air time doing a promotional stunt or something, and then went on to loose their shirt. You'll see their posters in the windows of most brick and mortar magic shops. How many magicians are touring successfully with their gala show? There are some shows out there that definitely are better than other ones. Still, many of these "touring" magicians, good or bad, do not survive long at it. We currently create shows for the venue and draw from hours of material that we have accumulated over the years. We constantly pack two or more shows in our van and trailer when we head out to work. It is not uncommon in a weekend to have to do a 60 minute family show in the day, a 90 minute adult show that evening and a 90 minute theatre show the next day. Each one totally different. Changing the audience? I was fortunate enough to have been in the longest running, full time magic theatre show in Canada. It ran over 10 years, 5 nights a week, downtown Toronto attracting audiences from around the world. (I was a part of it for 4 of those years). It sold out often and had a number of respected magicians and performers, not only in Canada, but later, internationally. The audience changed nightly. The show still folded after about 3500 performances. Can you put together a good show of whatever length, 30 to 90 minutes and sell it for a year or three? Of course, but it still has a shelf life and will need to be changed. I'm just being real here in a world of illusion. I'm not trying to be cynical. If you are one of those few who can make a living doing the same act and sustain yourself over your 20, 30, 40 year career, then you are indeed unique and I respect that. For the rest of us mortals, it pays to update. |
Jay Are Inner circle 4186 Posts |
Uri Geller has crafted an amazing career out of 3 effects...
xxx
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Very good Jay Are! And how many Uri Gellers are there???
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Doruk Ãœlgen Elite user 466 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-08-20 14:33, Jay Are wrote: and he is a millionaire.... |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
"and he is a millionaire.... " Which really makes him a rarity in the world of magicians!!
Geller was a man of his times. A time when people believed that thinking positively could change the universe. A time when professional sports teams might rely on putting pyramids under their benches to focus energy and power in their favour. Geller would not have made it as big today doing the same spoon bending, watch starting, second sight material. For years, following his initial success, he was ridiculed and laughed at. He vanished from the public's eye. Some whacko's still believed, but most saw him for what he was, an entertainer that tried to sell himself as the real deal. In order to maintain his lifestyle, I believe Geller was using his "powers" to help oil companies find oil deposits and any number of things. He certainly was not appearing on every talk show, magazine cover or whatever. He had to change his routines and use his "powers" for something else. He is enjoying an echo period in his career, but it will die out again in a few years too. I have nothing against Geller. His popularity only helps all of our income. However, he will fade again. In the meantime, he has changed his act to become a promoter and expert. |
magico563 Veteran user UK, sheffield. 381 Posts |
Thanks for the great response guys!!
All in all I have 7 routines that I use in a working environment and I haven’t changed them for some time now. At every gig, I always like to end up performing every routine at least once at the gig. I think I will just stick to what I am doing at the moment because nothing changed on the business side of things but it’s just my mind thinking it might do. Thanks again guys. Tom. |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Good luck with whatever you decide Tom.
My advice still stands, keep learning and at whatever pace works for you, adding to your reportoire. |
avimagic Loyal user Hollywood, Florida 235 Posts |
Quote:
and he is a millionaire.... True but that's in Shekels, and if you think the dollar is bad.... ;-) |
gadfly3d Special user 963 Posts |
[quote]On 2008-08-19 22:23, RJE wrote:
Anyone who only knows 8 tricks today, will soon be out of work. The days of nightclubs and 10 minute acts is long dead. In the trenches, the working pro will tell you that you want to build a solid list of regular clients. They might be schools, clubs, resorts etc... For this, you need to be constantly updating your reportoire. S I think we don't need to take Devant quite so literally. Even in todays market if you are constantly updating you are leaving a great deal of material behind. Here is another quote from a past pro (If I remember right Al Goshman). "An amateur does new tricks for old audiences and a pro does old tricks for new audiences," |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Goshman lived in a different era and I maintain that that quote is nonsense, and might have been nonsense when he said it.
The evidence just isn't there to support such a claim. To the contrary, the overwhelming evidence runs counter to this claim. List the "pro's" who have NEVER changed their act. They all have, because they have all had to. They may have a signature act, but they also have something different and being CREATIVE are constantly working on new bits to keep current and pursuing their living. Big names like Copperfield, Blaine and Angel. In the past all the greats Houdini, Thurston, Blackstone et al. And, in the blue collar or elite league of working magicians today, it is just as relavent. You have to change you act as time goes by. Whether it's for a new season, a new tour, a rebooking, your bored with your old material, your material is outdated (try booking a cigarette act today or look at the people stuck trying to find electric matches following 9/11 for their Wiz-Kotes), your props wore out, your costume is out of date, whatever the many reasons might be, you will change your act. You may keep certain routines and bits. You may decide that you need an entirely new act. But, you will make changes. |
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